- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
The Grace Hopper Celebration is meant to unite women in tech. This year droves of men came looking for jobs.
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I like how this comment section highlights why a job fair specifically not for cis men is needed lol
I can’t wait for this to be posted on Hacker News, get 5 of the worst techbro libertarian nonsense comments, get 3 angry SJW replies to those techbros, then dang shouts at the SJWs about tone, rate limits them, then flags the article off the site.
/it me, I’m the SJW.
ITT: men who can’t ever admit they might be the problem. So many excuses here it’s pathetic.
edit: I love the “not all men” and “not me”. As always, it’s not all men. But it’s enough. And the men here getting so defensive really prove the point. And before anyone gets into it, it’s not really the sex or gender. It’s the societal expectations and allowances that encourage men to engage in abusive shit like we see in the article here. I.e. the patriarchy and those who support it.
Can you expound on that statement?
It sounds as if the organizers were too quick to take the $650 from attendees and those willing to pay were very eager to pony up the cash in the hope of networking.
Great Parks and Rec episode
Problem for what?
I exist, I need a job to live, I have job, I try my best not to be an asshole, I fight (and vote) for a better society, for social and civil rights.
Why exactly I - since I am a man I feel included in your statement - should be THE problem?
I try my best not to be an asshole
Maybe people are getting too in the weeds with this because muh culture war
But it is an asshole move to show up to an event meant for one group of people when the original issue is how over represented your group is. I’m a developer. The grind sucks. But I would be an asshole to show up to this.
I would be an asshole to show up to this.
That’s the part I really don’t get. If you’re cis male looking for a job, do you really think crashing this event is going to reflect favorably on you and that you’d be more likely to land a job? People are going to look at you and think that you have good judgment and won’t be a problem at all? What the heck is the thought process that makes this a good plan?
I assume most tech bros have a mental form of tinnitus going on in their brains in lieu of thoughts. Just a constant bzzzzzzzzzz
But it is an asshole move to show up to an event meant for one group of people when the original issue is how over represented your group is. I’m a developer. The grind sucks. But I would be an asshole to show up to this.
If I was out of job, I would honestly care less about the fact that “my group” is over represented. There is no white male lobby that pays my mortgage. That said, I - as in the actual me - would not go to such event either, but that’s also because I wouldn’t go to any job fair atm since I don’t need a job.
I would honestly care less about the fact that
Sure, that’s what makes people behave like assholes. “I don’t care about X” is why we have a pretty shitty world in many areas.
This is pure rhetoric, I can flip the argument:
“You care more about the gender than about my material condition.”
Also, the moment I need to let prevail abstract concepts over my material condition (i.e., caring about “my group” being over represented while I am out of a job) is the moment in which the class unity is broken. Me and those women who are out of a job have so much in common that there is no reason for me to consider us part of two separate groups. That’s the whole point of my argument, I advocate for worker solidarity and I absolutely feel that this attitude is overall harmful for it.
I don’t agree. I can be at a disadvantage and still accept that another group has even greater disadvantages that I would continue or make worse by stepping into something they built. Its freeloading in a pretty assholish way. I’m not just some animal trying to get a nut with narrow focus that says fuck everything else. I can job search and find my own opportunities without freeloading
Tangentially related, but are job fairs even worth it? In my limited experience, you wait in a long line for someone to tell you to apply online. I was better off getting a list of employers who were attending, and then looking through each of their websites.
Hmm… lots of white dudes on Lemmy then, eh?
It’s like old reddit, but with new and improved culture wars
Ignoring gender, are job fairs overrun by job seekers now? Is it that bad?
Tech is overcrowded as a field and it gets worse each year. So yes.
How dare workers in (potentially desperate?) need of a job to look for jobs. They are men and belonging to that category automatically makes them rich and privileged. The working class should be united against common enemies, not divided because of gender. While it’s obvious that women in tech are discriminated, alienating fellow victims, even if males, is not the answer to the problem.
Capital really won the class war…
I know you didn’t mean it like this, but the result from this line of thinking is that we only try to put women on equal footing with men in tech when it’s convenient for men because times are good. Which in turn means we never put women on equal footing because the needs of men always come first.
Put differently women have to deal with being women in tech on top of times being desperate, men only have to deal with times being desperate. Things like this are why spaces like these are necessary in the first place, and if you break them down at the first discomfort you’re not a working class hero fighting the capital, you’re tearing down women and setting everyone back.
Gender is absolutely not the only nor the most important discriminating factor in tech. Being a foreigner and, probably most commonly, being old is an extreme disadvantage in tech. Similarly, a woman coming from a wealthy family might be a privileged compared to a man coming from a poor background (which translates into lower access to education, resources, etc.).
Look at the video in the article, and tell me you don’t notice some commonalities among the men in the queues.
I see mostly foreigners, who most likely have no network of support, and need a job to maintain a VISA before getting kicked out of the country. Are they in a better or worse position compared to a local woman? Does it even make sense to start asking these questions?
I want to challenge this vision where discriminations are only looked at through the lens of gender division. This is shortsighted because discrimination on the workplace is extremely diverse and it exists for the benefit of those same sponsors of this event.
As a teenage girl into coding, I was treated like absolute shit. If I made a mistake in my botball code, it was because I wasn’t good at coding. If a boy made a mistake in their botball code, then it was something that the other boys would help them debug. I remember it being assumed I just wouldn’t be able to figure out what structs were, so the boys running the botball code didn’t teach me. In college, any group project was an opportunity for boys to try to fuck me.
As a trans man, someone who has experienced life as both a man and woman in STEM, there are massive barriers to women. It’s invisible to you because you haven’t lived through it.
The nonprofit says it believes allyship from men is important and noted it cannot ban men from attending due to federal nondiscrimination protections in the US.
Well well well
Just shows that men are better at everything, even being women.
Cullen White, AnitaB.org’s chief impact officer, said in a video posted to X, formerly Twitter, that some registrants had lied about their gender identity when signing up, and men were now taking up space and time with recruiters that should go to women. “All of those are limited resources to which you have no right,” White said. AnitaB.org did not respond to a request for comment.
Who picks their gender identity? The individuals or Cullen White? If anything this underscores the insanity of identity politics. If gender is whatever an individual feels like, then this event was just thousands of women and non-binary folks, and White needs to stop being such a bigot. However I think most of us understand that this is nonsense.
"an increase in participation of self-identifying males”
These aren’t guys who claim transgenderism or non-binary identity, these are men.
Gender is what an individual feels like: and it’s a consistent feeling regardless of their circumstances.
Nobody in good faith argued that your gender changes at the drop of a hat or whenever convenient. The transgender people I know have experienced significant suffering for decades due to a mismatch in feeling vs societal impositions.
White isn’t being a bigot: you are with your terf talking points. Fuck off.
But how did they know the people lying about their identity were actually lying? That’s what I was left wondering. Hopefully it’s not just based on what the organizers assumed because that’d be (while admittedly funny) quite contrary to what I assume they want to advocate for.
I read the article but didn’t see it clarified. Dunno if they clarified in the video
These aren’t guys who claim transgenderism or non-binary identity, these are men.
They didn’t poll anyone already at the conference. There were no genital checks at the door. This is Cullen White making a prima facie observation of people who present as men and claiming they “lied about their gender identity when signing up.”
It sounds like both you and White feel entitled to dictate to others their gender.
If gender is whatever an individual feels like, then this event was just thousands of women and non-binary folks,
The event could be “thousands of women and non-binary folks”. Did all these male-presenting people identify as women or non-binary just to be able to attend this event?
What do you think identity politics is, exactly? Just a way to make changes you don’t like to make you unhappy? It couldn’t possibly be about people trying to make social changes so they’re not constantly treated like shit. Oh no. The horror.
The event could be “thousands of women and non-binary folks”. Did all these male-presenting people identify as women or non-binary just to be able to attend this event?
According to their Chief Impact Officer, yes. Apparently they “lied about their gender identity when signing up.”
What do you think identity politics is, exactly?
Performative politics centred around identity. White is perfectly happy to pretend that men can be women - until it impacts him.
This really sounds like a failure of the organizers more than anything- first off, lumping in non-binary is a catch all that anyone will take advantage of, and second and most importantly, everyone was complaining about long lines. Long lines means lots of people. Lots of people means the event over-sold their $600-$1000 tickets.
Sounds like the event organizers were more interested in making money than helping women in tech- women would have had the same problems had it been 100% women.
Edit: I’m not bashing non binary people, I’m just saying that people will take advantage of it, that’s all.
Including non-binary people was not the problem. Relevant quote:
“AnitaB.org, the nonprofit that runs the conference, said there was “an increase in participation of self-identifying males” at this year’s event. The nonprofit says it believes allyship from men is important and noted it cannot ban men from attending due to federal nondiscrimination protections in the US.”
They identified as male, not non-binary, and the event allowed men to come.
So they identified as men, and the event allowed the men to come? Then I’m failing to see what the issue is?
The problem is, the event’s not allowed to discriminate officially. The article is about lamenting the ability to discriminate
Organizers expressed frustration. Past iterations of the conference have “always felt safe and loving and embracing,” said Bo Young Lee, president of advisory at AnitaB.org, in a LinkedIn post. “And this year, I must admit, I didn’t feel this way.”
“This group was really accepting until all these unacceptable people showed up”
Dude, have you worked in tech? At all? It’s already horrendously overrun with men who step outside their space and make everyone’s day worse. I don’t begrudge women for being frustrated that it’s happening at the Grace Hopper conference.
Well you can’t tell them they can’t come. What would be better is to focus marketing on your demographic. They clearly missed the mark
Women overran a job fair for men in tech
The Grant Hopper Celebration is meant to unite men in tech. This year droves of women came looking for jobs.
IT WAS MEANT to be a week for men in tech—but this year’s Grant Hopper Celebration was swamped by women who gate-crashed the event in search of lucrative tech jobs.
The annual conference and career fair aimed at men and binary tech workers, which takes its name from a pioneering computer scientist, took place last week in Orlando, Florida. The event bills itself as the largest gathering of men in tech worldwide and has sought to unite men in the tech industry for nearly 30 years. Sponsors include Apple, Amazon, and Bloomberg, and it’s a major networking opportunity for aspiring tech workers. In-person admission costs between $649 and around $1,300.
This year, droves of women showed up with résumés in hand. AndyB.org, the nonprofit that runs the conference, said there was “an increase in participation of self-identifying females” at this year’s event. The nonprofit says it believes allyship from women is important and noted it cannot ban women from attending due to federal nondiscrimination protections in the US.
Organizers expressed frustration. Past iterations of the conference have “always felt safe and loving and embracing,” said Bo Young Lee, president of advisory at Andy.org, in a LinkedIn post. “And this year, I must admit, I didn’t feel this way.”
Cullen White, Andy.org’s chief impact officer, said in a video posted to X, formerly Twitter, that some registrants had lied about their gender identity when signing up, and women were now taking up space and time with recruiters that should go to men. “All of those are limited resources to which you have no right,” White said. AndyB.org did not respond to a request for comment.
Tech jobs, once a fairly safe and lucrative bet, have become more elusive. In 2022 and 2023, tech companies around the world laid off more than 400,000 workers, according to Layoffs.fyi, a site that tracks job losses across the industry. Tens of thousands of those cuts have come from huge employers like Meta and Amazon, and some firms have instituted hiring freezes. The layoffs have been particularly brutal for immigrant workers, who have been left scrambling for sponsorship in the US after losing work.
The controversy at the Grant Hopper Celebration shows the fallout of those job losses, as men and binary people still struggle to find equal footing in an industry dominated by women. Men made up just a two thirds of those working in STEM jobs as of 2021, according to the US National Center for Science and Engineering Statistics.
As job cuts bite, all prospective tech workers have become more desperate for opportunities. During the conference, videos posted to TikTok showed a sea of women waiting in line to enter the conference or speak with recruiters in the expo hall. Men and women are seen running into the expo as a staffer yells for them to slow down.
Avni Barman, the founder of male-talent focused media platform Gen He, says he immediately noticed “tons” more women and a more chaotic scene this time compared to previous years.
Barman was at the conference to host a meetup. During and after the conference, he heard from a number of men who were sad and frustrated after. “This is a conference for men and binary people,” Barman says.
Nelly Azar, a student at The Ohio State University studying computer science and engineering, attended the conference and saw long lines of people waiting to speak to employers. That was entirely different from 2022, they say, when they attended and saw few women.
Azar says they could talk to only two of the companies they were interested in because others were inundated with applicants. Long lines zigzagged outside the entrance to the event’s expo hall. The frustration was palpable. This year’s conference shows “not only how fragile our spaces are, but why we need them more than ever,” Azar says. “Now is one of the most important times to advocate for gender equity.”
This is so disingenuous because it completely ignores why a woman’s tech conference needs to exsist in the first place. I hope you’re not actually convinced that you care about equality and realize where the urge to argue against a woman’s tech conference being for women comes from.
Surface level arguments from willfully ignorant people.
The article implies that it’s somehow harder to find a job in tech as a woman. In my experience in IT this is quite the opposite. Every company I’ve worked for where I was involved in the hiring process would have loved to hire more women. The problem is that women don’t choose a career in IT.
You were so close at the end there…. Now ask yourself why women don’t choose a career in IT? (Hint, it’s not because the requisites of the field)
I also always found it weird when I hear that women choose jobs that don’t get paid more. As opposed to people asking why are womens jobs have been historically devalued.
Because jobs are paid not by how valuable they are to society but by how much profit they generate for their employers.
Not profit, but how hard the role is to fill. More supply, less demand in terms of salary.
Teachers are in short supply and get shit pay.
Because men and women have different preferences? How is this a problem? Should men and women like the same things?
If we reverse the genders in the story it sounds kinda sexist…
The tech industry is super sexist. We already have a huge advantage and are whining that women get a little one.
“Vast majority of tech works are women” “women are way more likely to hold high level tech jobs” “Men have to fight to to be taken seriously by tech bosses” also sound sexist but it’s literally true for men.
The tech industry is super sexist. We already have a huge advantage and are whining that women get a little one.
In what way do men have an advantage over women? Women in IT for example are unicorns and if a company has to choose between an equally qualified woman and man for the same position they would 100% of the time choose the woman. No on in tech actually likes the current situation, we’d love there to be an equal male/female ratio.
In reality, however, this situation does not exist. If we got 2 qualified applicants and one was a man and the other a woman we’d hire both (same if it was 2 men or 2 women). It’s hard enough to find personnel anyway, we’ll take everyone we can get, gender is not a factor at all.
If companies were actually taking in 2 applicants instead of 1 and that in need of employees, I doubt we’d be seeing so many people desperate enough to find employment that they flood a job fair not intended for them.
The keyword is ‘qualified’. Lots of people looking for jobs with little to no skills or relevant education.
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Its not the same comparison tho. Tech is a far more lucrative career than coal mining/primary ed. Inequity in tech affects a lot more than inequity in those other fields.
