• Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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    9 hours ago

    Socialism can, Communism cannot. Socialism is a gradual process towards Communism. A worker cooperative does not endanger the Capitalist system nor move agaInst it, but Socialist countries and economies working towards Communism do.

    Communism, however, must be global.

    • yucandu@lemmy.world
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      6 hours ago

      Socialism is a gradual process towards Communism.

      This was the lie that Lenin told the Soviet to quell their questions about “why aren’t we doing any of the things Marx said we have to do?”

      Marx used socialism and communism as synonyms.

      A worker cooperative does not endanger the Capitalist system nor move agaInst it,

      You sure about that? A bunch of people choosing to not give money to capitalists “does not endanger the capitalist system”? Think about that.

      • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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        6 hours ago

        Lenin and the Bolsheviks did follow the general process Marx described, though. Can you elaborate on what you mean, here? Further, Marx used Socialism and Communism interchangeably, but referred to Communism in stages, such as Lower-Stage Communism and Upper-Stage Communism. Lenin simplified this to Socialism and Communism, and over time we have come to understand that we can go further and break these up into even more stages.

        Marx wasn’t around for the establishment of Socialism, his analysis was focused on Capitalism and how we may overcome it, not a prophetic view for how society must work. This isn’t a knock on Marx, rather, by contextualizing his ideas we can avoid dogmatism.

        As for cooperatives in a Capitalist system, no, not really. What you are describing is Utopianism, ie the idea that you can think of an ideal society and adopt it directly. The data surrounding cooperatives don’t appear to indicate any danger to large firms and other Capitalist entities dominating markets.

        • yucandu@lemmy.world
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          6 hours ago

          The data surrounding cooperatives don’t appear to indicate any danger to large firms and other Capitalist entities dominating markets.

          Can I see that data?

          Since I’m sure you’re arguing in good faith here and have actually looked at some data, and you’re not just making things up.

          • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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            6 hours ago

            There’s small but sustained growth in small firms, but these are nowhere near scaling to the level of large corporations and firms, indicating an inability to overtake them. Rather, they seem to be “filling in the cracks,” overtaking small sectors while leaving areas dominated by large firms untouched. This is why public ownership actually has a path to control these large firms.