But you could have bought four more bad status quo years to build that political movement! Now you don’t have even that, people there are getting murdered and dragged into concentration camps more and more openly since even us randos overseas are hearing about it, and you might never get to vote again
You mean that we could’ve stalled efforts to build a political movement until the situation was even worse.
The choice to vote Democrat is also a choice not to vote PSL. If it cost nothing, then I would’ve done it, give me ranked choice voting and I will put the Democrats above the Republicans. But I consider it more important to support people who would actually fix the situation if they got power.
Do you know history, have you read the stories of people living under true dictatorships? I truly hope I’m wrong, but even if it’s been bad there so far, now you might be in for a ride
Yes. I’m also aware that virtually every country on earth has elections, including undemocratic ones. Our elections have been more about spectacle and entertainment since well before Trump. They’re also a very useful tool. If you asked a person in a vacuum whether they support genocide, or any of the other awful stuff our politicians get up to, they’d say no. But once you introduce team sports into it, once you get everybody to make a choice, now they feel like they have to defend that choice and justify the horrible things their team does. And so at all times, about a third of the population become active advocates for the ruling class, justifying and explaining everything that they do. Because if I criticize the president, I’m also criticizing their decision to vote for that president, and how about I fuck off with that, bub?
It’s all just fear mongering and performatively demonstrating how much faith you have in electoralism. And it’s stupid because when the elections do happen, you’ll have discredited yourself, looking like the boy who cried wolf. I don’t think there’s any way I’m going to break through this nonsense so we’ll just have to wait a bit until I’m proven right, by which point of course everyone will have moved on to something else and won’t care.
And the whole thing is especially stupid, because there are literally wolves right there! How about we focus on the tyranny and oppression that’s actually, already happening? On the masked fascist thugs raiding workplaces and dragging people away to secret torture dungeons? Is that not bad enough that you need to conjure up some unlikely, imagined scenario to fret over? I stg.
Look, I wouldn’t care about USA politics since it is not my place to say, but what your psycho leader is trying to do, is essentially making Russia launch another attack on Europe. And I’m a finn, we’re in the front lines, and I fucking don’t want to have fight yet another invasion and even possibly your goddamn troops off Greenland as well. Maybe you only care about your country, but what you chose has a massive impact on the rest of the world, and now people in developing countries are dying because the dollar store dictator cut large amounts of funding, and a great war is threatening to happen in Europe again, which would mean even more people could die in unnecessary wars.
This all could have been avoided or at least postponed, which would have given more time to try to prevent all this insane shit. Or are you seriously suggesting your democrats would have also allied with Russia and threatened to attack Greenland?
Greenland, no. But to act like the Democrats aren’t involved in imperialism, plunder, and genocide in other places is absurd. I’m not willing to sacrifice those other countries and people for the sake of Greenland, or for my own sake, or for the sake of my neighbors.
In my view, genocide is completely off the table in the range of solutions I’m willing to consider. I’ll oppose the right by whatever means are available to me, but that’s simply not an option.
If you want to argue that I have a moral responsibility to aid other countries and ensure their safety and security, maybe to some extent that’s true. But any such positive moral duty certainly does not outweigh my negative moral duty to not actively fuck with other countries, to not be the danger I’m supposed to be preventing. “First, do no harm.” If protecting Finland requires me to support the wanton slaughter of innocent Palestinians, then you’re on your own. If protecting Palestinians meant actively supporting the wanton slaughter of Finns, then I would say the same thing.
I haven’t seen anyone on lemmy actually claim that, and I certainly wouldn’t. But who is leading you right now is making all those things actively worse. Not a single palestinian has been saved because you’re willing to let some other people suffer instead, now we’re just all going to suffer.
Personally I think there’s a clear difference between “I let 10 people die” and “I let 100 people die”, and since in your country’s shitty voting system inaction or third parties is practically the same as choosing the latter, well… To change your system it has to start from the root level which you clearly know better than I do. But when election is ongoing - the bus is already running, you have only two choices. And now the bus is going off the cliff
But you could have bought four more bad status quo years to build that political movement! Now you don’t have even that, people there are getting murdered and dragged into concentration camps more and more openly since even us randos overseas are hearing about it, and you might never get to vote again
You mean that we could’ve stalled efforts to build a political movement until the situation was even worse.
The choice to vote Democrat is also a choice not to vote PSL. If it cost nothing, then I would’ve done it, give me ranked choice voting and I will put the Democrats above the Republicans. But I consider it more important to support people who would actually fix the situation if they got power.
Who was George Floyd?
Who built the camps?
All things being equal, it is better that they do it openly and that more people are aware of it.
This is nonsense. The US Presidential Election is the most popular reality TV show of all time.
Do you know history, have you read the stories of people living under true dictatorships? I truly hope I’m wrong, but even if it’s been bad there so far, now you might be in for a ride
Yes. I’m also aware that virtually every country on earth has elections, including undemocratic ones. Our elections have been more about spectacle and entertainment since well before Trump. They’re also a very useful tool. If you asked a person in a vacuum whether they support genocide, or any of the other awful stuff our politicians get up to, they’d say no. But once you introduce team sports into it, once you get everybody to make a choice, now they feel like they have to defend that choice and justify the horrible things their team does. And so at all times, about a third of the population become active advocates for the ruling class, justifying and explaining everything that they do. Because if I criticize the president, I’m also criticizing their decision to vote for that president, and how about I fuck off with that, bub?
It’s all just fear mongering and performatively demonstrating how much faith you have in electoralism. And it’s stupid because when the elections do happen, you’ll have discredited yourself, looking like the boy who cried wolf. I don’t think there’s any way I’m going to break through this nonsense so we’ll just have to wait a bit until I’m proven right, by which point of course everyone will have moved on to something else and won’t care.
And the whole thing is especially stupid, because there are literally wolves right there! How about we focus on the tyranny and oppression that’s actually, already happening? On the masked fascist thugs raiding workplaces and dragging people away to secret torture dungeons? Is that not bad enough that you need to conjure up some unlikely, imagined scenario to fret over? I stg.
Look, I wouldn’t care about USA politics since it is not my place to say, but what your psycho leader is trying to do, is essentially making Russia launch another attack on Europe. And I’m a finn, we’re in the front lines, and I fucking don’t want to have fight yet another invasion and even possibly your goddamn troops off Greenland as well. Maybe you only care about your country, but what you chose has a massive impact on the rest of the world, and now people in developing countries are dying because the dollar store dictator cut large amounts of funding, and a great war is threatening to happen in Europe again, which would mean even more people could die in unnecessary wars.
This all could have been avoided or at least postponed, which would have given more time to try to prevent all this insane shit. Or are you seriously suggesting your democrats would have also allied with Russia and threatened to attack Greenland?
Greenland, no. But to act like the Democrats aren’t involved in imperialism, plunder, and genocide in other places is absurd. I’m not willing to sacrifice those other countries and people for the sake of Greenland, or for my own sake, or for the sake of my neighbors.
In my view, genocide is completely off the table in the range of solutions I’m willing to consider. I’ll oppose the right by whatever means are available to me, but that’s simply not an option.
If you want to argue that I have a moral responsibility to aid other countries and ensure their safety and security, maybe to some extent that’s true. But any such positive moral duty certainly does not outweigh my negative moral duty to not actively fuck with other countries, to not be the danger I’m supposed to be preventing. “First, do no harm.” If protecting Finland requires me to support the wanton slaughter of innocent Palestinians, then you’re on your own. If protecting Palestinians meant actively supporting the wanton slaughter of Finns, then I would say the same thing.
I haven’t seen anyone on lemmy actually claim that, and I certainly wouldn’t. But who is leading you right now is making all those things actively worse. Not a single palestinian has been saved because you’re willing to let some other people suffer instead, now we’re just all going to suffer.
Personally I think there’s a clear difference between “I let 10 people die” and “I let 100 people die”, and since in your country’s shitty voting system inaction or third parties is practically the same as choosing the latter, well… To change your system it has to start from the root level which you clearly know better than I do. But when election is ongoing - the bus is already running, you have only two choices. And now the bus is going off the cliff