Not really a great analogy though, is it, since Biden wasn’t the one who pulled the football up the first time. His administration has also been working constantly, using every way they can, to forgive as much student loan debt as possible. That’s after the SCOTUS ruling.
Say what you will about him, but Biden has shown that, at least on this issue, he’s doing everything in his power to get rid of as much as possible. And he’s already changed the lives of hundreds of thousands of borrowers… Again, after his plan got shot down.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they get this done in time for the election… They will try to get the timing right though so it motivates people to vote.
No, he did what he said he would do, and the Supreme Court stopped it from going into effect. The conservative establishment sued the government to stop it from happening.
MOHELA, one of the apparent plaintiffs on the lawsuit, is on record prior to the court case saying that they had no interest in suing and that they don’t know why this lawsuit was being brought in their name. There was no standing whatsoever, the case shouldn’t even have been heard.
Regardless, no, Biden didn’t pull the football. In fact, his efforts to forgive tens of millions of dollars since the SCOTUS ruling, in addition to this article, indicate that he’s still planning on following through on that campaign promise.
I’m glad he didn’t just give up after he SCOTUS ruling. Every other President that’s been in office during my lifetime would 100% have given up after losing that case. Especially given that the benefits tend to skew younger, and a more cynical, real politik person would cut their losses, claim they tried, and move onto sometime that they think will net them more votes.
Yeah… I can’t tell the difference anymore between conservative idiots and actual real tankies. That’s how close many of their talking points have gotten… I guess if one thing has been consistent throughout modern history, it’s that political groups on the left will always sabotage their own success with infighting on petty minutiae and making perfect the enemy of good. Yes, I know the Democrats aren’t “on the left” etc. etc. etc… I’ve made my point. We’re always our own worst enemy.
That’s simply NOT true. When the Republicans are bulldozed out of the way, Democrats go full speed ahead. Look at California. Newsom has gone absolute gangbusters with the GOP helpless in his path. We’re a bullet train of progress here!
Note: So to briefly pause here: I’m not exactly sure what happened, but I may have gotten a little carried away with this comment, it just kind of wrote itself and I couldn’t stop. I’m not even sure how much it pertains to your comment lol sorry. It’s long, so I wouldn’t fault anyone for skipping the rest. That said, I do think it makes some important, albeit possibly already well known points.
What did I say that’s not true? There is a long and storied history of leftists failing to accomplish meaningful change on a large scale due to petty infighting (for example, New Jersey exists) and self-imposed purity tests…
My comment assumes that the one I’m replying to is sincere and arguing in good faith. This is the internet, so you never know. Either way, this comment isn’t just for him, it’s for anyone who may see this thread and are curious about whether or not Democrats are progressive or vice-versa. So who knows, maybe someone else will read this and learn something new lol you never know…
My initial thought was that you seem to be making the mistake of conflating “progressive” with “democrat”. Are there progressives that caucus with the Democratic party? Sure (though begrudgingly). And why do you think they do that, rather than starting a third party of their own? After all, these neo-libs are just as bad as conservatives in their minds. Why do you think that progressive politicians in the US choose to caucus with the 'dem like 98% of the time? And leftists just cannot help themselves. We have some compulsion to zero-in on that often arbitrary 2% difference, Ultimate gatekeeping. Rather than celebrating the 98% of views we agree on, it is decided that cooperation is impossible.
It wasn’t always just Bernie out there on a limb; Some of us are old enough to remember people like Dennis Kucinich (and his disproportionately hot and cool wife lol), Mike Gravel, and last, but absolutely not least: Howard Dean, a "progressive-adjacent Democrat who was set to potentially win the nomination. And I can hear it already/again: “he’s not a true progressive because xyz, so he doesn’t count as a one!”
In all seriousness I truly believe Howard Dean’s career was deliberately assassinated because at the time, he was running the DNC like a well-oiled machine— his ‘fifty-state strategy’ was showing very real results. The GOP saw a future where they’re fighting for their lives in just about every state, knowing full well that they have no actual policy to run on. Republicans were threatened by this already, and the thought of him becoming President absolutely terrified them. So they assassinated his career for the dumbest reason ever (with the media and center-left complicit, of course),
What we need are more progressive politicians who are willing to actively caucus with the Democratic party. Once you get a large enough contingent, they will begin having actual power in the party’s policies.
So to get to my original main point before this comment transformed into something entirely different:
Given we must accept reality as it is, and given that that the reality is that we only have two parties is this country, we really have no choice:
a lukewarm neo-liberal party that has had no real choice but to follow the Overton Window (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window) further and further right or face extinction and ultimately cede power to the other party. Have you see what the “opposition party” looks like in places like Russia, and or,
literal racist, bigoted, homophobic, transphobic, fascists (their dumbasses don’t need to know the definition of something to be it) who are working tirelessly to take away basic rights
I am aware of Israel/Palestine, and I am 100% against Netanyahu’s campaign of genocide. Which is why voting for Donald Trump, who wants to give Netanyahu carte blanche (literally told him to “get it done faster” in contrast to everyone else in the world telling him to chill the fuck out).
If you give a single shit about the plea of the Palestinian people, and haven’t just latched onto a cause for attention or whatever, then you would understand why you need to vote for Joe Biden.
I must emphasize, THIS IS HOW THE SITUATION IS AT THIS MOMENT. That is, until young progressives recognize that perfect is the enemy of the good, and that they are able to collectively change the ethos and platform of the Democratic party. And that’s how you get a progressive party in a two party system. Problem is, young people don’t vote.
Again, apologies for the crazy long comment, this wasn’t planned. I hope at least someone reads it. Cheers!
I’m gonna break down my response simply: I’m a Democrat who voted for Bernie in the primaries and Clinton/Biden in the general. Never sacrifice the good for unreachable perfection.
“I do think in this moment of economic pain and strain that we should be eliminating interest on the debts that are accumulated, No. 1. And No. 2, I’m prepared to write off the $10,000 debt, but not [$50,000],” Biden said, saying he doesn’t believe it can be done with presidential action.
I know enough about how democracy works to know I’m not voting for the guy again. We’re not fucking around here. Make material compromises with leftists or progressives or lose to MAGA. Make a choice.
Biden can’t do it by himself. But we who dumped Trump the first time - minorities and women - will.
Regardless, the United States is doomed to collapse and Balkanize. I’d rather see that than live under a white patriarchal theocratic ethnostate. And I’m not the only one. You’d best take that seriously. You will live to see the USA end. Mark that.
Lol how old are you? This your first election? Maybe Democrats will make concessions to progressives when we (and young people in general) fucking show up to vote consistently. And not only in presidential races.
Until then, you’re naive if you think you can make ultimatums like that… It’s laughable.
What I was referring to about learning how the world works, was learning how things actually get done in reality, not in your books on poli sci theory.
First off, Biden isn’t a king. The president does not have carte blanche to just eliminate hundreds of billions of dollars in personal debt with the swipe of a pen. Frankly, I would not want that power vested in one person. If he were more authoritarian-inclined, he might try (though authoritarians seem to never use that power to help anyone buy themselves and their buddies), and there are several potential outcomes of that, and none of them end with him getting the thing he originally wanted… Nothing happens in this kind of system without compromise (which is why we see the Republicans’ obstructionism works), so yes, $50k becomes $10k.
There is also this thing called “political capital”… I’m not going to waste any more of my time when you probably won’t even read this far…
Lol how old are you? This your first election? Maybe Democrats will make concessions to progressives when we (and young people in general) fucking show up to vote consistently. And not only in presidential races.
I will be showing up to vote for a 3rd party. So if what you’re saying is true moderates, liberals and establishment Democrats will go “Oh shit. Look at all these reliable voters to the left we’re not reaching.”
Until then, you’re naive if you think you can make ultimatums like that… It’s laughable.
Moderate and liberal voters make these ultimatums every day and you just act like it’s normal.
Not really a great analogy though, is it, since Biden wasn’t the one who pulled the football up the first time. His administration has also been working constantly, using every way they can, to forgive as much student loan debt as possible. That’s after the SCOTUS ruling.
Say what you will about him, but Biden has shown that, at least on this issue, he’s doing everything in his power to get rid of as much as possible. And he’s already changed the lives of hundreds of thousands of borrowers… Again, after his plan got shot down.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they get this done in time for the election… They will try to get the timing right though so it motivates people to vote.
He did pull the football. He campaigned on $50k forgiveness and then negotiated down to $10k after he was elected.
No, he did what he said he would do, and the Supreme Court stopped it from going into effect. The conservative establishment sued the government to stop it from happening.
MOHELA, one of the apparent plaintiffs on the lawsuit, is on record prior to the court case saying that they had no interest in suing and that they don’t know why this lawsuit was being brought in their name. There was no standing whatsoever, the case shouldn’t even have been heard.
Regardless, no, Biden didn’t pull the football. In fact, his efforts to forgive tens of millions of dollars since the SCOTUS ruling, in addition to this article, indicate that he’s still planning on following through on that campaign promise.
I’m glad he didn’t just give up after he SCOTUS ruling. Every other President that’s been in office during my lifetime would 100% have given up after losing that case. Especially given that the benefits tend to skew younger, and a more cynical, real politik person would cut their losses, claim they tried, and move onto sometime that they think will net them more votes.
Let me break this down for the simple minded:
Biden proposes $50k in student debt forgiveness.
Republicans fight him to make it $0.
Supreme Court sides with Republicans.
They force Biden to make it $10k just so it will pass.
“Biden pulled a Lucy on his voters!”
Yeah… I can’t tell the difference anymore between conservative idiots and actual real tankies. That’s how close many of their talking points have gotten… I guess if one thing has been consistent throughout modern history, it’s that political groups on the left will always sabotage their own success with infighting on petty minutiae and making perfect the enemy of good. Yes, I know the Democrats aren’t “on the left” etc. etc. etc… I’ve made my point. We’re always our own worst enemy.
That’s simply NOT true. When the Republicans are bulldozed out of the way, Democrats go full speed ahead. Look at California. Newsom has gone absolute gangbusters with the GOP helpless in his path. We’re a bullet train of progress here!
Note: So to briefly pause here: I’m not exactly sure what happened, but I may have gotten a little carried away with this comment, it just kind of wrote itself and I couldn’t stop. I’m not even sure how much it pertains to your comment lol sorry. It’s long, so I wouldn’t fault anyone for skipping the rest. That said, I do think it makes some important, albeit possibly already well known points.
What did I say that’s not true? There is a long and storied history of leftists failing to accomplish meaningful change on a large scale due to petty infighting (for example, New Jersey exists) and self-imposed purity tests…
My comment assumes that the one I’m replying to is sincere and arguing in good faith. This is the internet, so you never know. Either way, this comment isn’t just for him, it’s for anyone who may see this thread and are curious about whether or not Democrats are progressive or vice-versa. So who knows, maybe someone else will read this and learn something new lol you never know…
My initial thought was that you seem to be making the mistake of conflating “progressive” with “democrat”. Are there progressives that caucus with the Democratic party? Sure (though begrudgingly). And why do you think they do that, rather than starting a third party of their own? After all, these neo-libs are just as bad as conservatives in their minds. Why do you think that progressive politicians in the US choose to caucus with the 'dem like 98% of the time? And leftists just cannot help themselves. We have some compulsion to zero-in on that often arbitrary 2% difference, Ultimate gatekeeping. Rather than celebrating the 98% of views we agree on, it is decided that cooperation is impossible.
It wasn’t always just Bernie out there on a limb; Some of us are old enough to remember people like Dennis Kucinich (and his disproportionately hot and cool wife lol), Mike Gravel, and last, but absolutely not least: Howard Dean, a "progressive-adjacent Democrat who was set to potentially win the nomination. And I can hear it already/again: “he’s not a true progressive because xyz, so he doesn’t count as a one!”
In all seriousness I truly believe Howard Dean’s career was deliberately assassinated because at the time, he was running the DNC like a well-oiled machine— his ‘fifty-state strategy’ was showing very real results. The GOP saw a future where they’re fighting for their lives in just about every state, knowing full well that they have no actual policy to run on. Republicans were threatened by this already, and the thought of him becoming President absolutely terrified them. So they assassinated his career for the dumbest reason ever (with the media and center-left complicit, of course),
What we need are more progressive politicians who are willing to actively caucus with the Democratic party. Once you get a large enough contingent, they will begin having actual power in the party’s policies.
So to get to my original main point before this comment transformed into something entirely different:
Given we must accept reality as it is, and given that that the reality is that we only have two parties is this country, we really have no choice:
a lukewarm neo-liberal party that has had no real choice but to follow the Overton Window (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window) further and further right or face extinction and ultimately cede power to the other party. Have you see what the “opposition party” looks like in places like Russia, and or,
literal racist, bigoted, homophobic, transphobic, fascists (their dumbasses don’t need to know the definition of something to be it) who are working tirelessly to take away basic rights
I am aware of Israel/Palestine, and I am 100% against Netanyahu’s campaign of genocide. Which is why voting for Donald Trump, who wants to give Netanyahu carte blanche (literally told him to “get it done faster” in contrast to everyone else in the world telling him to chill the fuck out).
If you give a single shit about the plea of the Palestinian people, and haven’t just latched onto a cause for attention or whatever, then you would understand why you need to vote for Joe Biden.
The reality of political party dynamics is incredibly complex and nuanced. The Democratic party in particular is so diverse not just of ethnicity, but of beliefs, opinions, etc. I mean look at this, I think the data speaks for itself: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/01/09/u-s-congress-continues-to-grow-in-racial-ethnic-diversity/
Here is my main point (I think):
I must emphasize, THIS IS HOW THE SITUATION IS AT THIS MOMENT. That is, until young progressives recognize that perfect is the enemy of the good, and that they are able to collectively change the ethos and platform of the Democratic party. And that’s how you get a progressive party in a two party system. Problem is, young people don’t vote.
Again, apologies for the crazy long comment, this wasn’t planned. I hope at least someone reads it. Cheers!
I’m gonna break down my response simply: I’m a Democrat who voted for Bernie in the primaries and Clinton/Biden in the general. Never sacrifice the good for unreachable perfection.
Yes he did.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/biden-student-loan-forgiveness-50000_n_602d49c6c5b67c32961aab8b
k
Not sure how the supreme Court is “negotiations” but sure
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-supreme-court-decide-fate-biden-student-loan-forgiveness-2023-06-30/
But he also was able to find other ways to forgive debt through other legal means
https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamminsky/2024/04/05/143-billion-in-student-loan-forgiveness-approved-as-biden-set-to-unveil-new-plan/?sh=92bc9243ed65
Here’s Biden pulling the football.
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/539139-biden-balks-at-50k-student-loan-forgiveness-plan/
“I do think in this moment of economic pain and strain that we should be eliminating interest on the debts that are accumulated, No. 1. And No. 2, I’m prepared to write off the $10,000 debt, but not [$50,000],” Biden said, saying he doesn’t believe it can be done with presidential action.
Emphasis mine.
Yes. He negotiated down.
Assuming you actually believe what you’re saying here, then you’ve got a lot to learn about how the world works.
I know enough about how democracy works to know I’m not voting for the guy again. We’re not fucking around here. Make material compromises with leftists or progressives or lose to MAGA. Make a choice.
I know I’m voting for Biden to stop MAGA.
Biden won’t stop MAGA. Liberal politics are incapable of stopping MAGA.
Biden can’t do it by himself. But we who dumped Trump the first time - minorities and women - will.
Regardless, the United States is doomed to collapse and Balkanize. I’d rather see that than live under a white patriarchal theocratic ethnostate. And I’m not the only one. You’d best take that seriously. You will live to see the USA end. Mark that.
Lol how old are you? This your first election? Maybe Democrats will make concessions to progressives when we (and young people in general) fucking show up to vote consistently. And not only in presidential races.
Until then, you’re naive if you think you can make ultimatums like that… It’s laughable.
What I was referring to about learning how the world works, was learning how things actually get done in reality, not in your books on poli sci theory.
First off, Biden isn’t a king. The president does not have carte blanche to just eliminate hundreds of billions of dollars in personal debt with the swipe of a pen. Frankly, I would not want that power vested in one person. If he were more authoritarian-inclined, he might try (though authoritarians seem to never use that power to help anyone buy themselves and their buddies), and there are several potential outcomes of that, and none of them end with him getting the thing he originally wanted… Nothing happens in this kind of system without compromise (which is why we see the Republicans’ obstructionism works), so yes, $50k becomes $10k.
There is also this thing called “political capital”… I’m not going to waste any more of my time when you probably won’t even read this far…
yes, he does. the supreme court has no enforcement mechanism. they’re the only ones who said he couldn’t do it.
I will be showing up to vote for a 3rd party. So if what you’re saying is true moderates, liberals and establishment Democrats will go “Oh shit. Look at all these reliable voters to the left we’re not reaching.”
Moderate and liberal voters make these ultimatums every day and you just act like it’s normal.