Looking to upgrade from an old Latitude, curious as to what mobile hardware you folks use for writing your open source projects?
I personally use a ThinkPad Z13 (all AMD; it’s nice but pricey), but I’d recommend getting a Framework (which wasn’t an option for me back then). I think modular and repairable laptops are cool, plus they seem to be well supported by the Linux community.
The only caution I would provide on Framework is their relative lack of BIOS updates: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/04/frameworks-software-and-firmware-have-been-a-mess-but-its-working-on-them/
They don’t have a BIOS updater for Linux (yet) and they have a history of overpromising stable updates. I get they’re hamstrung by upstream providers, but it’s a bad look on them to basically deliver a promised Thunderbolt update 1.5 years after announcing it. The CEO did say at least that they’ve hired on a new development team to get things moving, so hopefully they’ll be able to catch up.
Everything else I’ve heard about Framework is stellar.
I updated my AMD framework BIOS using fwupd last weekend with no problem on arch.
I’ve been watching on the framework machines for my next one. It looks like fwupd support them for BIOS updates. Framework owners will know more for sure.
Framework, any laptop that has good qubes support is fine in my book
I’ll second the Framework. I’ve had one since the 1st gen Framework 13 and love it.
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Huh? Do you compare to a new thinkpad or used? Because new ones are not that cheap.
What is qubes?
It’s an open source operating system, that looks for the best level of practical paranoia using virtual machines as a form of isolation between processes
Because of virtual machine workloads, and the security requirements, it can be quite demanding on hardware, and also open source support. So if a laptop supports qubes it’ll support anything else
Qubes is not fully FOSS afaik. Try something FSF-recommended to really test the compatibility
https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/license/
This source code is made available under GPLv2, unless there is a
LICENSEfile in the root of the containing repository that specifies a different license.How is GPLv2 not FOSS?
Have you ever heard of blobs (especially in the standard Linux kernel)?
I admire your level of purity, but your distinction is not helpful in laptop selection.
I’m not aware of any FOSS operating system that only uses totally open source hardware drivers. even GNU HERD would run proprietary drivers if they actually ever finished.
For Qubes, I’m not sure how you can have a better approach to isolating binary drivers, then running them in a totally contained virtual machine.
Which operating system are you referring to without drivers?
I’m not super informed about the kernel layer, so forgive me if this is a silly question, but how does that approach compare to atomic distros like Fedora Kinoite, UniversalBlue, or NixOS?
Basically anything that uses the libre kernel and is listed in the FSF list
what do i need for good qubes support? if i have enough for gpu passthrough can i assume qubes will be good?
Check the link in my comment above and you will see which laptops have been demonstrated to work with qubes
im asking more for my desktop
I just bought a Framework 13, and I got say, it’s amazing. First of all, everything works out of the box. That’s surprising for a laptop with Linux. Even the Dell I used to own that specifically advertised compatibility with Linux and even came with Ubuntu had a fingerprint reader with no Linux support. Meanwhile, the fingerprint reader on my Framework has worked flawlessly.
Second, it’s blazing fast. I got the new AMD one, and it’s definitely fast enough to handle everything I’ve thrown at it.
Third, if something breaks on it, like the screen, replacing the part is incredibly easy. I’ve replaced a couple laptop screens before, and while they’re easier than phone screens, it’s still a PITA. And that’s if you can find a replacement screen.
And then lastly, eventually I’ll be able to upgrade it. I like that.
So yeah, if you can afford the price premium, I highly recommend the Framework 13.
Thinkpad A485. If you’re going used, I would grab a T460, T470, or T480. Really reliable models, all those can be had for $300 or less online, work great with Linux, and last forever. Plus they are decently repairable.
If new, I would also go with Framework laptops. Super repairable and sustainable. And very high quality laptops. My friend got one and it is super nice. Runs Fedora on it flawlessly.
I’ve got a T480 and it gets really good battery life. Having a hot swapable battery is nice too. I would suggest avoiding the ones with a dedicated GPU though. They are power hungry and don’t have enough performance to be worth it.
Thinkpad A485
I had one of those, but the trackpad occasionally wouldn’t work until I rebooted several times (I was using fedora). Did you run into any similar issue?
Had that happen after BIOS updates. Sending it to sleep and waking it up once always fixed it for me.
what they said but don’t go below T480; the performance jump is huge (quad vs dual-core) and the price difference is negligible while almost everything is interchangeable (screens, keyboards, cards, plastic parts, dock stations, etc.).
T480 should be attainable around the $/€ 200 mark nowadays as they’re 5-6 gens behind and upgrading 'em to like 16 or 32 GB and 1TB NVMe or more is stupid cheap.
that’s right, the T480 is the best upgradable thinkpad there is, you can even up the ram to 64gb
ThinkPad x200s. I recently did the USB C charging mod and upgraded to WiFi 6E. I’ve had Libreboot installed for a while now.
I do wish I could have more than 8GB of RAM though.
My x230 tablet has 16gb of RAM, and a nice touch screen with a stylus. Its such a fun machine and feels pretty powerful.
I have a framework 13 with fedora and I like it.
You beat me to it! I have the same setup. Did you have any issues with the 39->40 update? It broke my icons in plasma
For me sound broke but I just had to rm a file and reboot
I haven’t had time to upgrade yet actually
I have a cheap Thinkpad from 2018 (E580). A couple of years ago I expanded its ram to 16 GB, added a NVME disk and an second-hand AX wifi card and it still serves me very very well.
System76 has some good options. A little overpriced, but your money goes towards an open-source friendly company.
I use Tuxedo InfinityBook since few weeks and I like it very much. :)
Without being specific, I’d try to get something with firmware updates available on LVFS: https://fwupd.org/
And you might want to check for distribution specific notes on that model e.g.
- https://ubuntu.com/certified/laptops
- https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Category:Laptops
- https://linux-on-laptops.com/
- https://www.linlap.com/doku.php
If Wayland is more important to you than AI/ML/LLMs then you probably don’t want anything with an nVidia GPU
Thinkpad T470, i stupidly got a dual core, i’m looking to upgrade to a T480 though
Yeah I’ve got a t480. Sweet spot between upgradeable, repairable, affordable, performant. I’ve got a secondary NVME in mine for Debian. It’s got an internal and external battery. I replaced the thermal paste and the internal battery in about 20 mins. Very pleased with mine.
Framework laptop, the 13 model if you don’t need a dedicated GPU
ThinkPad X230 with 9 cell, 16 GB RAM, total 1TB storage, and an Atheros NIC. A bit limiting at times, but I ‘outsource’ heavier tasks to my much more powerful desktop. I’m quite uncompromising with laptop design and ‘ergonomics’, so I’m trying to piece together a custom laptop based around the Framework mainboard before the X230 no longer meets my demands.
For testing stuff on Windows and work stuff that requires it, an X1 Carbon Gen 7 with 16GB RAM and 256 GB storage.
A Starbook from Starlabs.
I just bought a Thinkpad x1 carbon preloaded with Fedora and it’s pretty fantastic.
I’ve heard a lot of good stuff about the Carbons, especially the older ones as Linux machines.
I have one from 2015 that is literally falling apart, but it still works okay. I’m going to be sad when I have to finally give up on it. Unfortunately, it’s not great for repair. I was going to replace the keyboard because some keys are malfunctioning, but it requires basically pulling apart the whole computer including some parts that are taped on.
So far I love it. I bought it brand new from Lenovo and you could pick from I think 3 or 4 distros. I picked fedora, which it came with 38. When I first booted up it had a bios update which honestly surprised me that they would bother. Then upgraded to 40 through the fedora upgrade path. All painless.
I was fully prepared to make a windows live USB just to flash the bios/firmware.
