• ceenote@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    29
    arrow-down
    30
    ·
    1 day ago

    Easy, they refuse to believe her.

    After all, if she didn’t sow discord by pointlessly undermining the president while an essentially powerless Vice President, she must love genociding brown people even more than Trump does somehow.

    • OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      39
      arrow-down
      6
      ·
      edit-2
      1 day ago

      they refuse to believe her.

      I mean like, I would believe her if she rolled out a plan for how the US is going to stop funding Israel? Or a plan for holding the Israeli military accountable? Or maybe I would believe her if she didn’t hold a press conference last week gaslighting us that Israel has to right to defend itself?

      • ceenote@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        18
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        edit-2
        1 day ago

        I agree. I’m just hoping they’ve made the calculation that remaining ambiguous on Gaza is a better electoral strategy, and once in office she doesn’t intend to spit in the faces of her base the way Biden has.

        It’s her or Trump, and there’s zero chance Trump will make things better, so anyone who cares about Gaza and has a realistic outlook on the situation should support Harris.

        • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          17
          arrow-down
          8
          ·
          1 day ago

          I’m just hoping they’ve made the calculation that remaining ambiguous on Gaza is a better electoral strategy, and once in office she doesn’t intend to spit in the faces of her base the way Biden has.

          Progressives should start working on a primary challenge the moment the polls close. Democrats should never have the opportunity to claim a mandate on this issue.

          • ceenote@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            4
            ·
            edit-2
            1 day ago

            Maybe. I’d prefer we give her a year or two to see how progressive she’s going to be. We’re forced to work within the Democrat party for now, and if we’re seen as a bunch of malcontents, centrist Democrats will see that as an excuse to reach out to more “gettable” moderates and conservatives instead

            • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              15
              arrow-down
              8
              ·
              edit-2
              1 day ago

              Maybe. I’d prefer we give her a year or two to see how progressive she’s going to be.

              If she shows some progressive bona fides, she’ll have no problem. Without the threat of a progressive challenger, I’m afraid we’ll get 4 years of centrists screaming that she’s the most progressive president since FDR and expecting everyone to buy it, like they did with Biden. And that’s at best. At worst, they’ll gleefully announce that moving to the right works, double down on Gaza, and THEN announce that she’s the most progressive president since FDR.

              We’re forced to work within the Democrat party for now, and if we’re seen as unpleasable, more centrist Democrats will have an excuse not to even try.

              As though they have ever tried.

              EDIT: Responding to your edit:

              and if we’re seen as a bunch of malcontents, centrist Democrats will see that as an excuse to reach out to more “gettable” moderates and conservatives instead

              Democrats do that in response to the sun rising in the morning.

    • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      30
      arrow-down
      16
      ·
      1 day ago

      After all, if she didn’t sow discord by pointlessly undermining the president while an essentially powerless Vice President

      She had no problem disagreeing with him when he called Republican voters garbage. She had no problem differing from him when she promised to put a Republican in her cabinet.

      It’s funny how she can move to his right as much as she wants, but never to his left.

      • ceenote@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        15
        arrow-down
        8
        ·
        edit-2
        1 day ago

        Biden calling Trump voters garbage was a gaffe. His own office walked it back. It’s way easier to depart from the president on a throwaway line than on a year-long policy that an all-too-large and ignorant chunk of the population still supports.

        I’m not satisfied with her public position on Gaza so far, either. But, since the notion that Trump will make anything better is ridiculous, the only plausible course is to get her in office and then pressure the shit out of her.

        And in case anyone’s thinking it, the idea that Jill Stein successfully spoiling into a Trump victory somehow means he’ll take her foreign policy advice is magical thinking.

        • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          13
          arrow-down
          19
          ·
          1 day ago

          I forgot that I need to append “I already voted for Harris” to anything that isn’t fawning worship, or Democrats’ sanctimonious lecture reflex kicks in.

          • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            11
            arrow-down
            15
            ·
            23 hours ago

            Problem is it’s not believable you voted for Harris after doing nothing but speaking out against her for months now. Guessing you voted for trump just based on your words on lemmy

            • OccamsTeapot@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              10
              arrow-down
              7
              ·
              edit-2
              10 hours ago

              This is exactly why this discussion is insufferable. You have literally been told how this person voted but you are so convinced by your own bullshit (ie that anyone mad about US support for genocide must, for some god damn reason, support Trump) that you don’t even believe it.

              I cannot wait for the 6th so that we can have this conversation without it getting sidetracked by overly loyal democrats condescendingly explaining how first past the post works as if we don’t know already.

                • OccamsTeapot@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  7
                  arrow-down
                  5
                  ·
                  18 hours ago

                  It’s funny how you can flat out accuse someone of lying about their vote because you simply don’t believe them and that is totally fine, but when I pointed out the issues with doing that this is “uncivil” and must be removed.

                  This person told you how they voted. The only reason you don’t believe them is because you have been lied to and you have bought into the lies. People mad about the current line on Gaza are generally not voting Trump, they are just mad at Biden and Harris. Perhaps if you have a zero sum mindset this is difficult to understand but it really is very simple.

                  • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    3
                    arrow-down
                    8
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    17 hours ago

                    Oh it was removed. Good. It had a horrible tone so I skipped it. This one too. It’s notable I tagged you months ago as an anti-biden zealot because of your attacks against anyone who isn’t trump