And I’m being serious. I feel like there might be an argument there, I just don’t understand it. Can someone please “steelman” that argument for me?
And I’m being serious. I feel like there might be an argument there, I just don’t understand it. Can someone please “steelman” that argument for me?
What’s so weird to me is how Americans can just be “oh bother! The not fascist prodemocracy party lost. If only I would care enough to do something, oh well better luck next time.” why aren’t you guys screaming?
Trump’s relationship with Putin is going to change the current world order. You know the world? It’s where the US is?
If that’s too abstract, then look at the remaining SCOTUS judges. With Trump in the Whitehouse then Alito and Thomas can step down and be replaced with more Gen Xers ensuring right-wing dominance for the next 30 years. Repealing Roe v Wade is going to be dwarfed by the what’s coming now.
Harris wasn’t ideal. Harris was as interesting as a corporate newsletter. But at least she wasn’t a threat to democracies worldwide. Harris would have meant less injustice, but not “no injustice”. But because people couldn’t get no injustice, they stayed home and got 20x the injustice they would have gotten otherwise. And now they’re justifying that? GTFO!
The US political system is broken. But it’s broken deliberately by one side to suit them, while the other side is too busy blaming each other for their own common failures to do anything.
I screamed when Bush won a second term. I screamed when Trump won his first term. The American people can’t really let me down any further than they already have.
Do you mean rioting? The guy even won the popular vote, possibly fair and square. Are you under the impression that there is some action we can take at this point to improve the situation?
That’s not a valid interpretation of the situation. Millions of people who voted for Biden did not come out for Kamala. There’ll be a lot of people trying to discern why and you probably won’t like my guess, but it’s too early to really have good information. Exit polls said only about 10 percent of people cared about Gaza at all. This idea of progressives not voting, sending the election to Trump doesn’t hold water at all. Dems first instinct is to punch left. I hope they learn a better lesson from this loss.
People who don’t vote aren’t hanging out on Lemmy talking about politics. All of the vitriol from Democrats is even more misplaced than usual. This outcome was pretty much what I thought would happen, but when I talk about how Dem decisions aren’t exciting voters, the response is to admonish me to vote, missing the point entirely.
Refusing to admit the part the Dems play is part of the problem as well. We can’t keep doing the same thing we’ve always done, and if we don’t learn from this we are truly doomed.
Ok, so I’ll be straight with you. I want to respond to your whole comment, but I need to stop engaging in these discussions. So know that I read all that you wrote, and I want to respond to everything. But I need to limit myself.
I don’t know. I don’t think so. But something has to be done, and it can’t wait until the next election. I’m not advocating violence. Part of me wants to say “eat the rich” and “if enough people shows up with torches and pitchforks, what is Musk going to do?”
But violence isn’t solving anything, and besides it would play right into the MAGA dream of a civil war. What has to happen is to copy what MAGA has been doing. Go after local positions. Put prodemocracy persons on school boards, town councils, election boards. Vote in prodemocracy officials like prosecutors, judges, and sheriffs (if any of them aren’t just appointed by now)
He only won the popular vote because of the inactions of good people. Prodemocracy movements need an inspiring leader and a cause. Apparently “save the US, save the world” wasn’t inspiring enough. IDK what would be, but getting the non fascist Americans motivated and organized is imperative.
I agree, and the part of that paragraph you didn’t quote says pretty much the same thing.
Yeah people just care about bread on the table and the roof over their head. Telling 150 million voting Americans to care about the world is falling on early 100 million deaf ears.
75 million don’t care, or actively dislike anybody outside the US.
Another 38 million only care as long as it’s convenient. And right now it’s not convenient.
Maybe 10-15 million are anti Republican because they’re lgbtq+.
Of the 150 million voters, 80 million are voting on a single issue. And for many of them, it’s either for or against abortion.
We’ve been supplying the West with a military for decades. We put more in to our ministry, and by extension every NATO member country’s military than the rest of NATO combined. We don’t have social programs, no healthcare, no child care, under funded education, no paid sick leave, no parental leave. We have a big shiney military.
People can’t afford to take a day off for the flu and they’re supposed to care about Europe?
Big ask mate. People here care about how they’re doing today and tomorrow. Not Ukraine 6 months from now.
I get it, I do. Far removed consequences, in either time or distance, are hard to get motivated by, especially if you have issues closer to yourself. All the things you list are not exactly stuff Trump’s going to provide. I mean he wanted to get rid of the ACA in his first term.
Problem is that being a superpower requires maintenance. It would seem that Trump doesn’t want to maintain that status https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2024/01/trump-2024-reelection-pull-out-of-nato-membership/676120/
I don’t want Europe’s security policies to be dependent on the US. What my country’s governments have been doing since the 80s is nothing short of irresponsible. FFS in the Danish navy the largest vessels are our two frigates, crewed by 100 personnel each. One isn’t seaworthy and the other can’t fire its main gun, because we only have one targeting system, and it’s on the other ship. Luckily it seems that my government has been awakened. And it would seem that a lot of other countries have been too.
But in the end, if Russia can get a seize fire in Ukraine, if Trump can get the Ukrainians to stop defending themselves. Then Putin will be able to regroup, and be able to rebuild his armed forces to be able to attack NATO countries, while Trump’s still president. And if NATO falls, because the US doesn’t get involved, then what’s stopping China from sinking some American boats to secure the South China Sea? While Iran goes full force on Isreal and North Korea invades the south?
I’m not saying that it’s a given, but this scenario is far more likely with Trump at the wheel than almost anyone else.
So while world peace isn’t the sole responsibility of the US, it kind of depends on the US at the moment.