Joe Rogan is very much part of the misinformation media, he continuously gets guests talking crazy shit and he always nods along, yeah yeah, and people form some stupid reason just lap it up
Can we, for the love of fuck, put laws in placenthst require that as soon as a group of a certain size (say 50+) listens to you, that you are responsible for what you’re saying and that you’re required to ensure that your information is scientifically correct?
I’m sorry, but fuck free speech as so many people are raving about. Its the worst thing that has happened to the world since the Internet came on. All idiots now have a loud voice and the vast majority of humans apparently are very poorly equipped to weed out this bullshit.
No, your “pyramid curing cancer theory being blocked by big pharma” is NOT real, does NOT have a right to be heard, and is NOT a positive for humanity.
Yes, yes, we should be able to say what we want (within reason) but once you’d tart getting a following, that’s it. No more, PLEASE. YOU HAVE YO START BEING TRUTHFUL AND FACTUAL. Why do we continue to allow people to lie their asses off to groups to manipulate others? Hell, even US presidents do this in insane amounts. Even Obama lied at least a little in like 25% of is statements? And he was a low outlier. Trump lies about 90% of the time at pants on fire levels and we’re all fine with it. First amendment rules ftw!
Trump would never have been in power if we had something like this. Medical quackery would be gone as Dr Oz can no longer sell his snake oil bullshit. Churches would be gone, yikes… Imagine marketing if companies were required to be actually truthful about their products?
News organizations!
OMFG. So Fox news sues the US government to not be held to standards requiring them to be factual because first amendment… So quite literally everything coming from them today is a lie. Its all bullshit. Why do we allow this and just laught at them? Why does nobody see the danger of just allowing news organizations to lie to the populace to divide the people, to get false ideas in their heads, to fill them with false hatred…
If Fox news and the likes would have been required to be truthful there would be no trump, the racial divide in the US would have been a whole lot less than it is today. And when I mean truthful I also mean the things they focus on, the insinuations, the pundits with their opinions.
Why why why, why do we allow any of this? What the fuck, world? The first amendment is not worth ending up in world was three because we MUST allow special interests to lie yo everyone, first amendment!
Start requiring that companies MUST be truthful. Presidents and governments MUST be truthful in claims to their citizens. Celebrity or someone with a following? You must be truthful in your claims.
We either start growing up as humanity or this will be our downfall. We are at the edge of the end of humanity as we have known it for centuries due to climate change (and have no doubt, it fucking will end everything we know today) but can’t even have a basic discussion about how to stop or reverse this because special interests are allowed to use their news outlets to just scream that climate change is a hoax.
We just allow that. The theater is on fire and we can’t even have a discussion on how to escape out because even though the flames are right there, the theater owner keeps screaming over everyone that all is okay, there is no fire, we don’t have to escape.
Its gotten to the point where no meaningful discussion is possible anymore because we vant even agree about the basic facts in front of us anymore.
This has got to stop. The lies have to stop, we need basic facts.
I’m sorry, but fuck free speech as so many people are raving about. Its the worst thing that has happened to the world since the Internet came on. All idiots now have a loud voice and the vast majority of humans apparently are very poorly equipped to weed out this bullshit.
Don’t even need the internet, the printing press gave us Malleus Maleficarum which fed the whole witch hunting craze. Then we had the The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a fake book made by Imperial Russia to demonize Jews. People were just as vulnerable to bullshit back then when it meshed with their existing biases.
how can anyone agree with free speech being the worst thing to happen in the world since the internet. seriously, how can anyone read that and agree?
the worst thing to happen in the world since the internet…is free speech… please read what you are saying BEFORE submitting a comment. good lord. if there was a lemmy worst of that single line should be pinned to the top
Disinformation should not be regarded as protected speech, any more than a fraudulent product claim or a defamatory comment is. Same goes for statements intended to incite stochastic terrorism, or specific and actionable death threats, or foreign propaganda emanating from troll farms.
Unless you are so stupid as to do nothing but repeat such malicious content, you free speech rights are not infringed by controlling malicious, false, toxic targeted claims such as those. And you are free to moan about it all you like, but it is becoming an existential matter for the preservation of democracy that such content is dealt with decisively. We’re in an information war, and the people originating that bullshit are this generation’s Lord Haw Haw and Tokyo Rose.
I’m sorry, but fuck free speech as so many people are raving about. Its the worst thing that has happened to the world since the Internet came on.
I think the mistake isn’t free speech but not having enough exceptions for fraudulent statements. For example, if you say anything false and damaging about a specific person, everyone agrees that’s libel and not “free speech”. But if you say something false and damaging about a group of people, like trans people or immigrants, that’s “free speech” and perfectly legal. Or if you say something false and damaging about fake cures, etc.
It’s actually a tough problem because we can’t expect everyone to just be perfectly right all the time. But I think that for people like Rogan who have a wide platform, there should be some liability for lying about things that actually harm others. The fact that this is effectively legal is why psychopaths are dominating media narratives right now.
I don’t care about individual expressing their opinions.
Once you have a following, you have a responsibility to speak the truth. We currently live in a world where fox news can spew incendiary lies 24/7 and noone bats an eye and if ever anyone says anything in court they simply claim to be entertaiment and that no reasonable person would take them seriously.
You should be able to question the politics and beliefs about any group though without being shutdown. Since there is no truly public forum online, similar to a physical town commons, you can be banned from privately run sites simply for questioning their dogma with no recourse.
I think you listed several good points. I believe a government that actually cared about its populace would help to protect people from propaganda. The problem is that this would require a government that was actually just. That is not what we have in the US at least.
I always think about it simply because it helps weed out what is really going on. Listen, if go to your doctor and they purposely give you bad advice they could be on the hook for it. They have licensing boards, oaths, insurance, and legal regulation to prevent them from saying things like horse dewormer good.
Why is it when we have influencers, talking heads, and politicians who can do much much more harm than one doctor giving bad advice allowed to operate without oversight, licenses, regulations, and ignore their obligation to society?
Let’s go back to simplifying this again. You would not tolerate someone in your personal life that lies and decieves you. Now think about people in authority. Would it be okay for your teacher, your coach, or your boss if they lied to you and manipulated you. They would lose their jobs if they did this and others find out.
We understand because of psychology and human nature that it is very easy to manipulate people and abuse them. That is why we hold the leaders close to us to high standards. Strangely though the more power people accumulate the less we seem to hold them to these standards when in fact we should even be stricter.
To be frank the reason we are not holding our most powerful people responsible is because they have been allowed to set the narrative. There is very little influence independent media has compared to mainstream media. If mainstream media creates an environment where it is just expected that politicians lie and are corrupt then everyone accepts it.
This is most definitely a conspiracy. Ever since propaganda became public relations we have seen those in power increasingly abuse their privileges. They have fine tuned the narrative to prevent themselves from being called out for the lies and damage they cause
They are using the best of psychology and other sciences to manipulate people. Drive their fear and hatred playing them like a marionette doll. We would never allow a partner to abuse us in this way but we allow someone who is way more powerful than a partner do this.
And make no mistakes these politicians are just like a partner because they are making intimate decisions about your personal life. They are invading our homes telling us what can and can’t do reproductively. They are threatening people’s livelihood. They are pitting Americans against each other for their own ends.
We need a new constitution that spells out that we will no longer be allowed to use the best of technology and science to manipulate people for selfish ends. We need rights to privacy, safety, and accountability. Until we grow up and stop allowing ourselves to be abused things will not improve.
The government must be designed to resist corruption not embrace it. Our current system is beyond broken with its winner take all two party nonsense. This binary choice is not a choice at all. You could never account for the diversity of thought and opinion with a choice between only two entities.
All of this is by design of course as the US was founded by the rich for the rich. I don’t know about you, but this is unacceptable. We have a cancer destroying our society and mainstream media pretends it does not exist because they part of that cancer.
We have lost the proverbial battle so far in the 21st century, but that does not mean we can’t demand change. The war for our future is not over yet. Don’t let people fool you either. Change can and does happen and until we demand it we will continue down this path of lies and deception.
It is great you are thinking of what you can do. The first is to talk about it with others. You need to find people who are interested in making a change. While you can latch on to any number of solutions to tackle the problems we face it is best to come up with your own solutions with like minded people.
One thing people have been trying to do is implement ranked voting. Although we would still be stuck with our two-party system, ranked voting prevents the conundrum of losing your vote if you vote third party. This also prevents other parties from helping out spoiler candidates and using them to continue winning elections even though it is clear people want change.
There has been a bit of backlash against ranked voting with some representatives even passing amendments to prevent ranked voting at the state level. A common criticism of ranked voting is it is confusing for voters. The real reason ranked voting is discouraged though is it upsets the existing power dynamic and would allow more independent or third party candidates.
You can also get involved with local politics. I would highly suggest paying attention to city/county elections. You could run for office yourself or find someone you like to campaign for.
Don’t be afraid to meet with your state or federal representatives either. I went down to the capitol and lobbied for gay marriage personally with my wife. We met with the news and talked with a lot of people on steps besides just the representatives. We ultimately passed this in our state before it happened on the federal level.
In my personal opinion, on the federal level, our biggest issue is privacy. It is time to write our Senate and Congress reps about this and tell everyone you know how important it is we have laws to protect us in this digital age.
Some of the other big issues that need to be tackled is unequal representation in Congress. For instance the county of LA has as much population as 40 US states but California does not get the reps they should in Congress.
We of course also need to get money completely out of politics. No one who is representing us should be allowed conflicts of interests. This means they should not be purchasing stocks or investing while they have privileged knowledge. They should not be running businesses and the revolving door between public office and private companies needs to be closed.
Money should not equal speech because if it does then those without money will not get equal representation. No more billion dollars campaigns and all political messaging should be tightly controlled. Candidates should only be able to sell their messages with their policies and should be held accountable to these policies.
I strongly feel politicians should be held to much higher standards. They should have a board, should pass tests, and should be licensed. All ethics should be codified into actual laws as we have seen relying on politicians to be honorable is foolish.
Joe Rogan is very much part of the misinformation media, he continuously gets guests talking crazy shit and he always nods along, yeah yeah, and people form some stupid reason just lap it up
Can we, for the love of fuck, put laws in placenthst require that as soon as a group of a certain size (say 50+) listens to you, that you are responsible for what you’re saying and that you’re required to ensure that your information is scientifically correct?
I’m sorry, but fuck free speech as so many people are raving about. Its the worst thing that has happened to the world since the Internet came on. All idiots now have a loud voice and the vast majority of humans apparently are very poorly equipped to weed out this bullshit.
No, your “pyramid curing cancer theory being blocked by big pharma” is NOT real, does NOT have a right to be heard, and is NOT a positive for humanity.
Yes, yes, we should be able to say what we want (within reason) but once you’d tart getting a following, that’s it. No more, PLEASE. YOU HAVE YO START BEING TRUTHFUL AND FACTUAL. Why do we continue to allow people to lie their asses off to groups to manipulate others? Hell, even US presidents do this in insane amounts. Even Obama lied at least a little in like 25% of is statements? And he was a low outlier. Trump lies about 90% of the time at pants on fire levels and we’re all fine with it. First amendment rules ftw!
Trump would never have been in power if we had something like this. Medical quackery would be gone as Dr Oz can no longer sell his snake oil bullshit. Churches would be gone, yikes… Imagine marketing if companies were required to be actually truthful about their products?
News organizations!
OMFG. So Fox news sues the US government to not be held to standards requiring them to be factual because first amendment… So quite literally everything coming from them today is a lie. Its all bullshit. Why do we allow this and just laught at them? Why does nobody see the danger of just allowing news organizations to lie to the populace to divide the people, to get false ideas in their heads, to fill them with false hatred…
If Fox news and the likes would have been required to be truthful there would be no trump, the racial divide in the US would have been a whole lot less than it is today. And when I mean truthful I also mean the things they focus on, the insinuations, the pundits with their opinions.
Why why why, why do we allow any of this? What the fuck, world? The first amendment is not worth ending up in world was three because we MUST allow special interests to lie yo everyone, first amendment!
Start requiring that companies MUST be truthful. Presidents and governments MUST be truthful in claims to their citizens. Celebrity or someone with a following? You must be truthful in your claims.
We either start growing up as humanity or this will be our downfall. We are at the edge of the end of humanity as we have known it for centuries due to climate change (and have no doubt, it fucking will end everything we know today) but can’t even have a basic discussion about how to stop or reverse this because special interests are allowed to use their news outlets to just scream that climate change is a hoax.
We just allow that. The theater is on fire and we can’t even have a discussion on how to escape out because even though the flames are right there, the theater owner keeps screaming over everyone that all is okay, there is no fire, we don’t have to escape.
Its gotten to the point where no meaningful discussion is possible anymore because we vant even agree about the basic facts in front of us anymore.
This has got to stop. The lies have to stop, we need basic facts.
Don’t even need the internet, the printing press gave us Malleus Maleficarum which fed the whole witch hunting craze. Then we had the The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a fake book made by Imperial Russia to demonize Jews. People were just as vulnerable to bullshit back then when it meshed with their existing biases.
Russian governments of all ideologies have resorted to shitting in the well. It seems a matter of cultural pride to them.
how can anyone agree with free speech being the worst thing to happen in the world since the internet. seriously, how can anyone read that and agree?
the worst thing to happen in the world since the internet…is free speech… please read what you are saying BEFORE submitting a comment. good lord. if there was a lemmy worst of that single line should be pinned to the top
Disinformation should not be regarded as protected speech, any more than a fraudulent product claim or a defamatory comment is. Same goes for statements intended to incite stochastic terrorism, or specific and actionable death threats, or foreign propaganda emanating from troll farms.
Unless you are so stupid as to do nothing but repeat such malicious content, you free speech rights are not infringed by controlling malicious, false, toxic targeted claims such as those. And you are free to moan about it all you like, but it is becoming an existential matter for the preservation of democracy that such content is dealt with decisively. We’re in an information war, and the people originating that bullshit are this generation’s Lord Haw Haw and Tokyo Rose.
Bruh… That’s some high hopes and a fuck load of effort for something that will never happen. Your suggestions are very much unrealistic.
I think the mistake isn’t free speech but not having enough exceptions for fraudulent statements. For example, if you say anything false and damaging about a specific person, everyone agrees that’s libel and not “free speech”. But if you say something false and damaging about a group of people, like trans people or immigrants, that’s “free speech” and perfectly legal. Or if you say something false and damaging about fake cures, etc.
It’s actually a tough problem because we can’t expect everyone to just be perfectly right all the time. But I think that for people like Rogan who have a wide platform, there should be some liability for lying about things that actually harm others. The fact that this is effectively legal is why psychopaths are dominating media narratives right now.
I don’t care about individual expressing their opinions.
Once you have a following, you have a responsibility to speak the truth. We currently live in a world where fox news can spew incendiary lies 24/7 and noone bats an eye and if ever anyone says anything in court they simply claim to be entertaiment and that no reasonable person would take them seriously.
What. The. Fuck.
How is any of that possible, at all?
You should be able to question the politics and beliefs about any group though without being shutdown. Since there is no truly public forum online, similar to a physical town commons, you can be banned from privately run sites simply for questioning their dogma with no recourse.
Please let’s do that. Half of Lemmy would go to jail and the other half straight to the death row
I think you listed several good points. I believe a government that actually cared about its populace would help to protect people from propaganda. The problem is that this would require a government that was actually just. That is not what we have in the US at least.
I always think about it simply because it helps weed out what is really going on. Listen, if go to your doctor and they purposely give you bad advice they could be on the hook for it. They have licensing boards, oaths, insurance, and legal regulation to prevent them from saying things like horse dewormer good.
Why is it when we have influencers, talking heads, and politicians who can do much much more harm than one doctor giving bad advice allowed to operate without oversight, licenses, regulations, and ignore their obligation to society?
Let’s go back to simplifying this again. You would not tolerate someone in your personal life that lies and decieves you. Now think about people in authority. Would it be okay for your teacher, your coach, or your boss if they lied to you and manipulated you. They would lose their jobs if they did this and others find out.
We understand because of psychology and human nature that it is very easy to manipulate people and abuse them. That is why we hold the leaders close to us to high standards. Strangely though the more power people accumulate the less we seem to hold them to these standards when in fact we should even be stricter.
To be frank the reason we are not holding our most powerful people responsible is because they have been allowed to set the narrative. There is very little influence independent media has compared to mainstream media. If mainstream media creates an environment where it is just expected that politicians lie and are corrupt then everyone accepts it.
This is most definitely a conspiracy. Ever since propaganda became public relations we have seen those in power increasingly abuse their privileges. They have fine tuned the narrative to prevent themselves from being called out for the lies and damage they cause
They are using the best of psychology and other sciences to manipulate people. Drive their fear and hatred playing them like a marionette doll. We would never allow a partner to abuse us in this way but we allow someone who is way more powerful than a partner do this.
And make no mistakes these politicians are just like a partner because they are making intimate decisions about your personal life. They are invading our homes telling us what can and can’t do reproductively. They are threatening people’s livelihood. They are pitting Americans against each other for their own ends.
We need a new constitution that spells out that we will no longer be allowed to use the best of technology and science to manipulate people for selfish ends. We need rights to privacy, safety, and accountability. Until we grow up and stop allowing ourselves to be abused things will not improve.
The government must be designed to resist corruption not embrace it. Our current system is beyond broken with its winner take all two party nonsense. This binary choice is not a choice at all. You could never account for the diversity of thought and opinion with a choice between only two entities.
All of this is by design of course as the US was founded by the rich for the rich. I don’t know about you, but this is unacceptable. We have a cancer destroying our society and mainstream media pretends it does not exist because they part of that cancer.
We have lost the proverbial battle so far in the 21st century, but that does not mean we can’t demand change. The war for our future is not over yet. Don’t let people fool you either. Change can and does happen and until we demand it we will continue down this path of lies and deception.
That seems like a boiling-the-ocean solution, comprehensively replacing the government with a new, better (and unproven) one.
What can be done that’s actionable incrementally, starting right now?
It is great you are thinking of what you can do. The first is to talk about it with others. You need to find people who are interested in making a change. While you can latch on to any number of solutions to tackle the problems we face it is best to come up with your own solutions with like minded people.
One thing people have been trying to do is implement ranked voting. Although we would still be stuck with our two-party system, ranked voting prevents the conundrum of losing your vote if you vote third party. This also prevents other parties from helping out spoiler candidates and using them to continue winning elections even though it is clear people want change.
There has been a bit of backlash against ranked voting with some representatives even passing amendments to prevent ranked voting at the state level. A common criticism of ranked voting is it is confusing for voters. The real reason ranked voting is discouraged though is it upsets the existing power dynamic and would allow more independent or third party candidates.
You can also get involved with local politics. I would highly suggest paying attention to city/county elections. You could run for office yourself or find someone you like to campaign for.
Don’t be afraid to meet with your state or federal representatives either. I went down to the capitol and lobbied for gay marriage personally with my wife. We met with the news and talked with a lot of people on steps besides just the representatives. We ultimately passed this in our state before it happened on the federal level.
In my personal opinion, on the federal level, our biggest issue is privacy. It is time to write our Senate and Congress reps about this and tell everyone you know how important it is we have laws to protect us in this digital age.
Some of the other big issues that need to be tackled is unequal representation in Congress. For instance the county of LA has as much population as 40 US states but California does not get the reps they should in Congress.
We of course also need to get money completely out of politics. No one who is representing us should be allowed conflicts of interests. This means they should not be purchasing stocks or investing while they have privileged knowledge. They should not be running businesses and the revolving door between public office and private companies needs to be closed.
Money should not equal speech because if it does then those without money will not get equal representation. No more billion dollars campaigns and all political messaging should be tightly controlled. Candidates should only be able to sell their messages with their policies and should be held accountable to these policies.
I strongly feel politicians should be held to much higher standards. They should have a board, should pass tests, and should be licensed. All ethics should be codified into actual laws as we have seen relying on politicians to be honorable is foolish.
At any rate, there is a few things you could do.
Stupid people love being stupid. Ignorance is bliss, after all.
The ignoramuses I encounter seem more angry or depressed than they are blissful.
No facts for you. Only alternative facts!
Well, unfortunately, this is only going to get much worse when Trump takes over…
Unfortunately, he is the high king of Skyrim.