Hi, do we have other German speakers in here? I’m currently working on the German translation for the PieFed user interface. I’d like to have a discussion on gender neutrality in the German PieFed translation.

The current form

Right now it uses the male form. I think it’s desirable to make it neutral. To quote rimu:

I prefer gender neutral. It’s 2025 now, not 1950.

The challenges

It’s difficult to translate UIs to gender neutral German because it creates long words that might not fit on buttons etc. and some of the forms aren’t well suited for screen readers, hence worsen accessibility. But I think we can do it, we just have to find the best form that’s shortest, neutral and clear.

Some words aren’t translated in the context of Lemmy/PieFed. e.g. Community would be Gemeinschaft in German, but we keep it English to avoid confusion. So we have the option of not translating individual words.

The options

Let’s use the word Users as an example. I’ll try to list all possible options. If I’m missing any, feel free to add them in the comments.

  • Benutzer (male form) ❌
    • current form, not neutral
  • Benutzerinnen (female form) ❌
    • not neutral
  • BenutzerInnen (neutral) ❌
    • bad for screen readers, long
  • Benutzer*innen (neutral) ⚠️
    • okay for screen readers, long
  • Benutzer:innen (neutral) ❌
    • bad for screen readers, long
  • Benutzer_innen (neutral) ⚠️
    • not widely used, don’t know about screen readers, long
  • Benutzende / Nutzende (neutral) ✅
  • Benutzys / Nutzys (neutral) ✅
  • User (not neutral when used in German) ❌
    • according to dict.cc User is a correct german plural form of the english word Users
    • but it isn’t neutral when used in German

This is where I’m stuck. Nutzende is my preferred plural form. But I haven’t found a fitting singular form for it. There is more, but I’m just using this as an example of the challenges.

What we should try to achieve

  • Find the best gender neutral form and apply it to the German PieFed translation
  • Represent this form in the glossary as a standard for the German PieFed translation to guide translators

Feel free to leave a comment here or join the translation chat to discuss things further.

  • suff@piefed.socialDeutsch
    3·
    9 days ago

    We should clarify when we say “user” and when “account”.

    My take is: while “users” refer to the humans who use PieFed, accounts are the entity used to authorize users. Users cannot be banned technically, but accounts can.

    • all strings about authentication, blocking and privileges, etc. should talk about accounts, not users
    • there’s nothing but user accounts, so drop the “user” in and keep just “accounts”
    • because users never use their real name, we shouldn’t talk about user names but about “account names” or “identifiers”
    • “account” is independent from it’s user’s name, gender and most further traits
    • other subjects are problematic, too: “Moderator added”, “Replier blocked”, “Block author”, “Number of known subscribers”, “Manually aprove followers”

    Options:

    1. we could generalize the User/Account differentiation for all problematic subjects: “Mod account added”, “Replying account blocked”, “Number of known suscribing accounts”, “Manually aprove following accounts”
    • “account” repeats a lot, maybe that’s an opportunity for finding a rephrasing that is unique for PieFed? “Fedi”?
    1. we can drop the subject where possible and instead focus on the passive predicate: “Moderation reinforced”, “Source of reply blocked”, “Number of known subscriptions”, “Manually aprove follows”
    • to avoid military tone, maybe use more humorous exaggerations?
    1. how can we maintain a friendly, close sound while attempting these linguist acrobats?
    • Talk to “you” where ever possible.
    • Mention “your peers” or “your equals” more often.
    1. Benutzer, Benutzende, Nutzende, Nutzys, Mitglieder, Leute, ~Meine Kerle~
    • Don’t risk too much. Normies are welcome, too.
    • How about an additional language next to de_DE: de_Gendered