• Sanctus@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    The Human OS is not ready to be without borders unfortunately. One day, after the last smog-filled breath of air is forcefully exhumed, and all the world’s treasures fail the last baron of wealth, we will be ready. As long as our hearts are wholly material, the world will stay the same.

    • OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml
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      10 months ago

      We literally didn’t have borders as they exist today until a century ago lmao, they literally solidified around the formation of what we consider modern nation-states.

      The human os isn’t ready for a borderless world my entire ass, the issue is the systems currently in place.

      • stevehobbes@lemy.lol
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        10 months ago

        Humans have built societies with rules for forever.

        And banish people outside their society.

        I’m not an expert on the theory of all of this, but it seems entirely dubious that anarchy could function in any environment for long.

        • NotJustForMe@lemmy.ml
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          10 months ago

          A light form was tribalism. If you didn’t go with the flow, you were expelled. With enough expelled ones, new tribes were formed. It kinda created human diversity for a while. There was only so much room on the river, so at some point more elaborate systems emerged. And the people with the biggest huts made those rules. Rules were made so that they could keep those huts. Extremely simplified.

          We now don’t have places to banish people to. That’s why the cry for housing is emerging. Someone took the wild away. They should provide an alternative. I believe that’s the whole idea behind wanting the rich to pay. For some reason they were allowed to own everything. Often for centuries.

          It makes little sense to people today. How was anyone allowed to walk somewhere, stake a claim, and own it forever? Even defending it with lethal force? Why aren’t we anymore?

          • stevehobbes@lemy.lol
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            10 months ago

            We didn’t then either. The real issue is scale. What worked when the entire population of the human race was 100,000 doesn’t work when it’s 8,500,000,000.

            You’re right that there are no wilds no, no one is getting 40 acres and a mule, and you can just inhabit a new area.

            But let’s not forget that a lot of the stake a claim and defend with lethal force was literally colonialism. So many of those wilds were owned by other people, but the stronger guy with the bigger rock can kill him, take his land, take his wife.

            Hardly utopia.

            • NotJustForMe@lemmy.ml
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              10 months ago

              Exactly the point I apparently failed to make. It never worked. Yet we are holding on to it. Just with the added caveat that the weapons are now money, and the wilds are gone.

          • stevehobbes@lemy.lol
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            10 months ago

            In what way isn’t it? How were the borders of the France different than the Roman Empire or Mesopotamia?

            • OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml
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              10 months ago

              Literally the free movement of people? Borders used to be “the zone of control of a government” and couldnt really exist as checkpoints for people moving back and forth over the border.

              • stevehobbes@lemy.lol
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                10 months ago

                That feels like a distinction without a difference? The vast vast majority of physical land borders are effectively open everywhere worldwide still today.

                The zone of control of a government just kicks you out if they don’t want you?

                • OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml
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                  10 months ago

                  There is a massive difference if you can practically establish who is allowed into and out of a country

                  • stevehobbes@lemy.lol
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                    10 months ago

                    So is the argument against technology that allows us to know who is who and records of who is a citizen of places?

                    Like, they used to record that stuff too… it was just much harder?

                    They would collect taxes and keep records?