With the Voice to Parliament Referendum date announced to be October 14 2023, this thread will run in the lead up to the date for general discussions/queries regarding the Voice to Parliament.
The Proposed Constitutional Amendment
Chapter IX Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples
129 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice
In recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the First Peoples of Australia:
there shall be a body, to be called the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice; the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice may make representations to the Parliament and the Executive Government of the Commonwealth on matters relating to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples; the Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws with respect to matters relating to the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice, including its composition, functions, powers and procedures.
Past Discussions
Here are some previous posts in this community regarding the referendum:
- The Voice referendum official Yes/No pamphlets
- Linda Burney says there is everything to gain and nothing to lose by supporting the Voice
- Families distressed after ‘highly misleading’ video used by anti-Voice campaigners goes viral
- The Indigenous Voice to Parliament – separating fact from fiction | 7.30
- 10 questions about the Voice to Parliament - answered by the experts
- The yes pamphlet: campaign’s voice to parliament referendum essay – annotated and factchecked
- Fact-checking for the “No” referendum pamphlet was not compulsory
Common Misinformation
- “The Uluru Statement from the Heart is 26 Pages not 1” - not true
Government Information
- Referendum question and constitutional amendment
- voice.gov.au - General information about the Voice
Amendments to this post
If you would like to see some other articles or posts linked here please let me know and I’ll try to add it as soon as possible.
- Added the proposed constitutional amendment (31/08/2023)
- Added Common Misinformation section (01/07/2023)
Discussion / Rules
Please follow the rules in the sidebar and for aussie.zone in general. Anything deemed to be misinformation or with malicious intent will be removed at moderators’ discretion. This is a safe space to discuss your opinion on the voice or ask general questions.
Please continue posting news articles as separate posts but consider adding a link to this post to encourage discussion.
You must log in or register to comment.
15 years of consultation with aboriginal commmunities across all of Australia.
Developed, vetted and approved by practicing constitutional lawyers.
Good enough for me.
I find it so frustrating when I hear NO campaigners say a constitutive is not required. Politicians should just do their job and it’s easy to consult ATSI people, no voice required.
They literally did that. Consulted ATSI people, as part of a plan to change things, with all major parties on board. They are showing how much they don’t listen by saying that they don’t need the voice to listen? Aaaghhh.
No voters are low-key racists, I 100% believe this- they hide behind some weak arguments to pretend they’re progressive, but deep down they are just bigoted at heart. at worst this Yes vote does nothing, at best it changes for the people the well-being and future of indigenous australians. This whole throwing water on the fire instead of using a fire truck is just obfuscation, and they’d also find a reason to vote No for the fire truck as well.
“Everyone who doesn’t agree with me is a racist even the Aboriginal Australians”
Yes voters are one who want to enshrine racism in constitution. Any mention of race is racism, but majority is so brainwashed to fail to understand it.
There are valid reasons to vote no. However most no voters seem to jump on all the excuses to try and justify their stance. Even when two reasons are contradictory.
Then complain that the YES side call them racist. I do think they don’t consider themselves racist. They think their opinions are just ‘common sense’ rather than discrimination. Or that the injustices are too long ago, ignoring current injustice.
The way I see it is we have 3 options. The voice. No change Another unnamed option.
They are against the voice. They recognize, for the most part, that there is injustice, but have no alternative path. To me, that’s intellectual dishonesty. If you recognize there is a problem, you either propose a solution or go with the proposed current actions to help, or accept status quo. A nonvite is a vote for status quo, but with added divisiveness sue to attempts made to actually have change, that are now rejected.
You can be pro-Voice and anti referendum. The issue is that the proposed amendment is offensively ineffectual.
Claiming that the progressive NO has no path forward is intellectually dishonest. Just because you don’t know what it is doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
Yet, given an opportunity here, you failed to enlighten anyone.
I’ve explained extensively why the referendum rubbish elsewhere in the thread. I can’t enlighten you if you refuse to pull your head out of where the sun doesn’t shine.
Yes, you’ve given your spurious reasons for a no. Still no proposed solution instead.
Maybe if you spent less time insulting people and more time being constructive, you’d see better than the proverbial head up an ass.
There are valid reasons to vote no.
Such as? I’ve never seen one and I think if there were valid reasons the No campaign would be spreading the word far and wide.
Not recognising one race or people so as to preserve equality under the constitution is one. I don’t agree as the history and inequality no present outweighs it.
Having a separate process, different to the voice is a valid argument, however the NO side aren’t proposing one.
If you think the status quo is acceptable, that there is sufficient resources available and they are properly allocated, then that is a valid reason to vote no. Again, I disagree.
They are valid, in the sense that they follow a degree of logic and make grammatical sense. Otherwise no.
This is my take.
I really don’t know anything about the, nor the issues faced by indigenous Australians, nor the best way to address them. This just isn’t relevant to my day to day.
That said, if I made a list of people who’s opinions I respect and polled them I’m sure it would be overwhelmingly “yes”.
For me, this referendum boils down to exactly the same pair of questions as for the same-sex marriage postal survey in 2017:
- Does this affect me adversely? (answer: no, it doesn’t)
- How does this benefit those that want it? (answer: for the better)
Easy.
There is no guaranteed positive effect though like there is for gay marriage being made legal. There is definitely a huge chance that it’s just virtue signalling and used to go “look we care what indigenous people want” while doing nothing to actually help indigenous people though.
This is what shits me about the no camp. You’re too worried about what it’ll look like, rather than getting past the first gate - giving them something in the Constitution.
It’s a starting point - not the end game.
Besides, my first question remains: where’s the harm in voting this in?
I have family diving into this and I listen here and there. A concern one has mentioned is the aggressive stance by Lidia Thorpe. Without a doubt she will want full sovereignty over any other race.
In a June 2022 interview, Thorpe said she was there to ‘infiltrate’ the Australian parliament and that the Australian flag had “no permission to be here”.
So yes, the voice can be used in good ways I’m sure, but, depending on your stance, Lidia will be trying to use it for her own means as well.
And having said that, maybe eventually these times will pass, Lidia’s will take over, and maybe that’s good? It was and probably should be the aboriginal people’s country to fully control in the end.
But Lidia’s against the Voice, so not sure how that line of thought plays out.
The fact is, the Voice won’t have the power to create legislation or veto Parliament, or even anything close to that. It’s job will be to advise on indigenous affars. Yes, we’ve had bodies before that were meant to do that (notably ATSIC). But they weren’t protected by the Constitution, so were easily dismantled by the government of the day.
Lidia is just an example, if that helps.
She in the past has said she wants full treaty, with whatever bargaining comes with it. I’ve heard that she wants more now, and that’s her right to want that. She may even get what she wants some day. Interesting times ahead.
The voice will be able to use shame via the media / social media etc, to ensure things it wants are passed. There may be other mechanisms also. These are some of the fears I hear.
It’ll be interesting to see it all play out, that’s for sure. I wonder what the future will bring for the nation? It’d be great to see aboriginal people lifted to a position of honour and be able to reclaim their losses. I think though, this is the everyday day man’s fear. What will that mean? How far will it go? Only time will tell.
So, why isn’t she FOR the Voice? Explain that.
Or maybe because she knows that her lunacy will be blocked out once there’s an advisory body telling us how crazy she is.
My thinking boils down to this:
-
We spend billions each year, but studies show the gap between other Australians and indigenous is worsening. We should be trying something. Anything.
-
For those concerned about ‘the details’, my understanding is that the pollies are responsible for those after the referendum. Do you really think a parliament and senate made up of mainly old white guys are going to significantly change how the country works? Seriously?
So, we’ve got nothing to lose, and hell, wouldn’t it be awesome if it actually had some positive changes!
-
What is it with all the people taking pens with them to the vote?
Do they not understand how polls work? What scrutineers do? A simple search can find information on how everything works.
Who the hell is telling them to take pens because if you use a pencil someone can change your vote?
Saw someone on Facebook saying to take permanent markers so they can’t change your “No” vote to a “Yes”. If the referendum succeeds, what’s the bet they’re going to claim it was stolen?
Why has every piece of “information” about the No vote always boil down to “we don’t know”. But the yes voters have a bunch of answers to every question.
Because the no campaign isn’t interested in answers, they just want to spread FUD.
Its not “we don’t know” its that the Referendum makes the Voice subject to parliament. The lack of details on how the voice will operate means that there is no protection from the constitution. It is not a Voice enshrined in the Constitution. The voice we will get if the amendment is passed is the same as the voice we would get if Parliament made a voice without a referendum.
so that 7 news story on the Adelaide “No” protest pretty much told me all I need to know about the No side.
conspiracy theorists, shouty people, antivax nonsense and racism. what any of that had to do with the referendum who knows
edit: sydney and melbourne too it seems. its almost as if certain types of people swing to the No side
Don’t forget neo nazis who are actively supporting the no campaign. Dutton and co can try to lie and convince people that they care about making things better for Indigenous Australians all they want but there’s absolutely no fucking reality where nazis give a shit about this. Not all people who vote no are racists, but all racists will vote no.
One question I have, which I haven’t been able to ask anyone since I’m a recluse, is “what positive societal change is made by voting no?”
“what positive societal change is made by voting no?”
That’s the wrong question. I don’t think any positive change will be made by voting no - but I also don’t think any positive change will be made by voting yes. In fact I think that there will be more negative change by voting yes.
Nothing. Even the Progressive No campaign has can’t answer that question. The closest they got was claiming a successful Yes vote would lead to more racism in Australia because everyone would be unhappy with Indigenous Australians getting a Voice…even though they would have literally just voted Yes to it in that scenario.
People voted for Brexit and a lot of them are unhappy about it, not that I expect the same would hold true of the Voice.
yep. and to be frank my opinion is if you take the same side as people like this, you are tarnished by their presence
Less than the active racism on the news, there’s a hell of a lot of people who think righting wrongs isn’t worth the small sum of cash and time that a voice will take up in the public sphere. People who think because we’ve been forced into a minority that we should lay down and accept being trodden on.
Counting has started, ABC has a live results page here. As of the time I’m writing this there is only 0.3% of the total counted but it’s rising quickly.
A summary of my viewpoint:
I am enormously sick of the no campaign brigading every discussion with terrible arguments in bad faith.
I have yet to encounter a legal expert, or for that matter, an Indigenous Australian who is accepted by their community, who is opposed. Similarly, the law is my degree. I’ve spent five years of my life studying it, and although I’m not a graduate yet (two units to go), I’d think I’d know more about this shit than Joe from bumfuck nowhere on Facebook.
There is no case for a no vote. None whatsoever. The change would not grant special rights to Indigenous Australians. It has been repeatedly explained by both lawyers and politicians. You can read the change yourself. It has to be a constitutional change, because that protects it from being outright removed by successive governments, which is the very thing that happened to the previous body that performed this role. By definition, it is not racist, as racism refers to negative treatment on the basis of race or ethnic background, and not differing treatment. This is one of three steps proposed by Indigenous Australians towards reconciliation, and isn’t the endpoint. If it fails, it will be the endpoint.
When the colonisers arrived, Indigenous Australians outnumbered colonisers. Now, they make up just 2.5% of the population. We are driving them to extinction. If this fails, by the time we get around to trying again, it is likely the genocide will have all but been completed.
Ethically and morally, a yes vote is the only choice. Legally, it is the best choice for change.
Just to point out, racism does not have to be negative treatment. Racism just has to be inequitable. The proposed amendment creates a system for Indigenous Australians, which is unavailable to other Australians. That is inequitable.
The changes needed can be achieved without a Constitutional amendment.
this is inequitable
Not what equity means. Equity refers to equal access to the same opportunities. Put simply, due to their post-genocide, White Australia Policy and “Breeding out the Black” (real campaign) numbers, Indigenous Australians completely lack representation in Parliament. Therefore they lack access to the opportunities your average Australian (regardless of race) has. An Indigenous Voice to Parliament will make things more equitable, not less, as it will provide access to the same opportunities of representation that the rest of us have already.
Indigenous Australians completely lack representation in Parliament
There are Indigenous Australians in Parliament so this cannot be true.
it will provide access to the same opportunities of representation that the rest of us have already
I get a vote and that’s it, Indigenous Australians also get a vote.
Sounds like the same opportunity for representation to me.
Indigenous Australians already have The National Indigenous Australians Agency (NIAA), employing 1,023 full time staff and a budget of $285M each year specifically for the purpose to “lead and influence change across government to ensure Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples have a say in the decisions that affect them.”
The very detailed annual reports and corporate plans define their activities, plans, and successes fairly well: https://www.niaa.gov.au/who-we-are/accountability-and-reportingCan we accept that this agency is providing equal (if not more) access to the same opportunities?
Your claim that the NIAA serves the same purpose has been debunked many times. As an internal government agency, it has no independence. Furthermore it only has 22% Indigenous representation among its staff. The Voice would be a completely independent and 100% Indigenous voice, free from white bias.
The NIAA is just another example of white people making decisions on behalf of black people, which we already know achieves nothing other than the waste of taxpayer dollars.
The NIAA facilitated the entire Voice referendum proposal to the government, as detailed in their 272-page report in July 2021.
This process, run by the NIAA, involved 115 community consultation sessions in 67 communities and more than 120 stakeholder meetings around the country with over 9,400 people and organisations participating in the consultation process led by NIAA co-design members.Are you suggesting that this was a waste of taxpayer dollars and “just another example of white people making decisions on behalf of black people”?
I think you need to look up the definition of equity with regards to human rights. You have it completely the wrong way around.
The changes needed can be achieved without a Constitutional amendment.
and removed next term when the next quasi fascist gets elected.
frankly im a little sick of the ‘no’ side claiming the Voice will both do nothing, but simultaneously cause some sort of irrepairable divide that will destroy the nation.
And every. single. cooker. is loudly vocally on the No side. Which makes it an easy choice for me
Insulting people and labelling people with whom you disagree doesn’t foster good discussion and only emboldens their position
those people are more than happy to do the same. Wanting a respectful response in return? lol no
Doesn’t matter: you should aim to be better than them
Found this which made me lol a bit
and removed next term when the next quasi fascist gets elected.
Come on, this is just FUD, plain and simple.
If the voice does turn out to be a white elephant, then we should have the flexibility to remove it and try again with a different model. I’m 100% on board with the Government of the day legislating a body, but I don’t believe it should be in the constution, and I doubt I’m the only one.
Using inflammatory language is not the way to try and convince people one way or the other.
Can’t we just have another referendum to remove it if it’s that bad?
Of course that’s an option in theory - but in practice, referendums are incredibly expensive operations, not to mention generally damaging to public discourse of other issues.
Most Governments would prefer to just reduce any funding for the body down to the bare minimum required, and have it sit impotently to the side, rather than front up and say ‘yeah nah, this didn’t work, so here’s another big money spend to fix the constitutional issue we created while we think of something else’.
But but that logic, it’s either not bad enough to be worth removing, or the government of the day has no real need to remove it.
Ergo, it being in the constitution is not really a problem.
The government only has no real need to remove it if they’re happy with the status quo regarding inequality - they can still point to the (presumingly failed) body and say ‘we tried’ and not bother with something better.
The idea that the voice is some sort of useless idea is seriously flawed. Policy institutes and Parliamentary hearing and committee are the biggest drivers of policy in this country. Media attention and petitions aren’t nearly as effective in this regard. The voice will likely not be integrated as a Parliamentary comittee is, due to its being a separate body, but will still offer valuable representation to Parliament to those who came before these institutions and this country. Aboriginals had their own traditions, nations and sovereignty on land that was not ceded. We have accepted their legal and unique history with this land, this is merely saying that within the framework of Australia as a country, that Aboriginals deserve access to our legislature and executive on matters that affect them.
The popular argument by resident no voter @whirlybird@aussie.zone seems to be that this is virtue signalling and that this would be the end of social justice for Aboriginals, that resistance would develop in trying to advance a cause further. They seem to suggest that we would be better off doing something of substance, as to not foment resistance and resentment. I would hope that on the first point, its been made clear that there is real benefit to having a Voice, and the second is irrelevant, the Australian population will tire after a no vote, and after a yes vote. Its the jobs of those politically active, the media, the Voice itself, politicians, and those non apathetic people to push for more when the time comes.
A second argument I hear, and the most factually true argument I hear is lack of detail. It is true that there is a lack of official detail from those legislators who will be advancing bills if the referendum finishes in the affirmative. It is also understandable to want to know in substance what the fruits of your vote would be. Id encourage those who would like to learn to listen to ideas from the referendum working group and those associated with the yes campaign on rough ideas of a Voice if this is the case. Its important to remember that we are voting on the amendment though, not the bill itself. There are significant measures that must go into establishing the voice in substance:
- Will the voice exist entirely under its own weight, legislated by Parliament and run by itself, or will the bureaucratic arm of the voice exist in the Australian Public Service
- How will the voice be elected? How will regional voices be represented? Is a federal model (each nation receives x representatives), a state based model (each state receives x amount of reps) or a unitary, population based model more effective?
All of these questions take significant time. If you can focus on the amendment, and whether support those ideas outside of what a future voice may look like, it will help.
The idea that the voice is some sort of useless idea is seriously flawed.
That’s your opinion. It’s not mine or plenty of other peoples, including lots of indigenous people.
this is merely saying that within the framework of Australia as a country, that Aboriginals deserve access to our legislature and executive on matters that affect them.
Yeah, they just don’t actually get any power over it. Gee aren’t we nice for giving them the ability to say “hey nah we don’t like this” before we say “tough shit, we’re doing it” and there’s nothing they can do.
I would hope that on the first point, its been made clear that there is real benefit to having a Voice
It hasn’t, no matter how many times you want to say it has.
Id encourage those who would like to learn to listen to ideas from the referendum working group and those associated with the yes campaign on rough ideas of a Voice if this is the case
I don’t care about “rough ideas”, I care about knowing the actual details of the things I’m being asked to put in our constitution. Why on earth should I vote to add something to it that we have no idea what it will look like, but we know that it can just change at the whim of the current party in power?
All of these questions take significant time. If you can focus on the amendment, and whether support those ideas outside of what a future voice may look like, it will help.
Then they should have taken that time before asking us to vote on it. This didn’t need to be rushed through. Any issues of timelines are caused by the people pushing for the referendum, thinking they can just bully everyone into voting yes by calling them racists, when all we want is to actually have details on what the voice will look like and what it can do. The referendum should not have been pushed without these details, and it would likely be a dramatically different result if we had what we are asking for but being told we can’t have unless we vote yes.
including lots of indigenous people.
Who? All polling suggests an overwhelming majority (>80%+ Yes, <15% No) of Indigenous Australians support the Voice. Provide some evidence or stop making this baseless claim. And no, more boring anecdotes about your “Indigenous friends” is not sufficient evidence.
Any issues of timelines are caused by the people pushing for the referendum, thinking they can just bully everyone into voting yes by calling them racists
It wouldn’t be a Whirlybird comment without some more crying about hurt feelings. Are you ever going to grow up and get a real argument? Maybe provide some evidence to back up anything you say? Or is this really the best you’ve got? Just another completely irrelevant sob story about how some imaginary Yes campaigner was mean to you online.
Never mind the actual hard, documented evidence of racism within the No campaign - the real problem (according to you) is that once upon a time a mythical Yes campaigner misidentified your ignorance as racism and you found that so incredibly offensive and life altering that you now feel the need to remind us of it in every single comment. Get over it already.
All polling suggests
Ah yes, the infamous “over 80% support it” based on a poll of 700 indigenous people 😂.
I’m assuming you’re the same person that said I had “hurt feelings” like this last time? My feelings aren’t hurt at all, though I have to wonder about yours considering how upset you seem to be getting. I’m stating facts - a big part of the yes supporters tactics are just say that anyone who doesn’t vote yes is racist. I’m sure you’ve done it plenty of times already, since you just did it to me 😂
The way you’re just making stuff up to try and attack me is exactly what I’m saying. You just try and bully people into your beliefs. Like I said, when you do that you shouldn’t expect people to side with you, but to turn even more against you. That’s how it has worked all throughout history.
More deflection. Where’s your evidence for your claim?
What claim? What deflection?
You’re just calling me racist and claiming my feelings are hurt, literally proving my point.
including lots of indigenous people.
Source?
You think I need a source to say lots of indigenous people are voting no? 😂
This is the first referendum voting experience for me so I’m excited to be part of history even if the outcome is not the one I want. I’m personally in the critical yes camp where I hope the referendum is successful but still agree with the points raised by the progressive no campaign. I was unsure for a while because I’m not an Indigenous person and wanted to listen to as many different Indigenous perspectives as I could before deciding. What really pushed me to yes was the idea that while not every person who votes no is racist, all racists will vote no.
I have serious issues with the idea of progressive no - it’s bad faith at worst, purity politics at best. “Nonono don’t throw that bucket of water on the fire i want a fire truck” the former doesn’t preclude the latter ffs.
What if the throwing of the bucket is used by the arsonists as justification for not calling the fire truck? What if the bucket was built by the people who have acted in the interests of the arsonists in the first place? What if the bucket isn’t full of water it is just a bucket?
What if a no vote is used as ‘proof’ no one wants indigenous representation? I can play that game too.
“The voice” is literally just enshrining in the constitution an indigenous presence in parliament. What the ever loving fuck do your other arguments have to do with this fact. What. Show your fucking work.
What if a no vote is used as ‘proof’ no one wants indigenous representation
A No result could just as easily be blamed on the poor wording of the referendum.
Show your fucking work.
No need to be so aggressive I’m trying to debate here in good faith. Read the proposed amendment.
Parliament shall … have power to make laws … relating to the … Voice.
So all they are doing is giving parliament the power to do something that it already has the power to do. The amendment doesn’t even go as far to say that any changes to the voice after it is established would need 3/4 majority or any other protections. The amendment is a nothingburger.
That’s what happened after the 2000 republic referendum. It was said that lots of people who voted no wanted a republic, but thought the wording of the question was wrong.
It ultimately doesn’t matter, because 23 years later there has never been another referendum on the topic.
If you believe a no vote for the voice is going to inspire a better worded referendum - or any sort of change on the status quo in the next couple of decades, well I’m afraid I’m going to disagree with you. A “No” vote is a vote for no change for the next generation.
Everyone is entitled to their viewpoint and it’s not my place to say what is or isn’t a good approach to change in this space. The progressive no campaign is connected to the Indigenous sovereignty movement and I can understand why they have taken the position they have. I’m not an Indigenous person so I don’t feel like it’s appropriate for me to try and represent their ideas. But I don’t think it’s fair to close yourself off to them, especially when the principle of the voice should is about listening to the diversity of Indigenous perspectives.
I think my very first voting experience was the republic referendum. I really didn’t know what I was doing or how to research. But all these years later, I stand by my vote.
I am voting Yes for The Voice because team Yes have put up an good case for it. Team No have yet to convince me otherwise; Everything I read is either vague speculation or miss information.
What really pushed me to yes was the idea that while not every person who votes no is racist, all racists will vote no.
Sorry but that’s not a very smart way to make a decision. It’s a terrible way actually.
Ok cool. You do you, I’ll do me. There’s no need to attack each other’s approach to decision making.
Voting no to this is simply reaffirming the status quo that violence is the only way foe minorities to gain a seat at the table.
This is an unprecedented, earnest, consensus, peaceful approach to a way forward. A way without killing.
Slapping it back out of fear is a vote in favour of violence, for that is the only other way indigenous people have gained political power in colonial nations.
Just be kind, choose to be kind. Please.
Alright counting has begun, so we’re locking this thread, tonight’s count will be covered in this thread
“Chapter IX Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples
129 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice
In recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the First Peoples of Australia:
there shall be a body, to be called the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice; the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice may make representations to the Parliament and the Executive Government of the Commonwealth on matters relating to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples; the Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws with respect to matters relating to the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice, including its composition, functions, powers and procedures.
This referendum does not establish a First Nations Voice enshrined in the Constitution. This Amendment is a nothingburger. They didn’t even enshrine the right for the Voice to address parliament. They said the voice “may” make representations to the Parliament and the Executive. I’m pretty sure anyone “may” make representations to the Parliament and the Executive if the Parliament and the Executive see fit.
The Parliament already has power to make laws with respect to matters relating to the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. The whole point was to make a “Voice enshrined in the Constitution” not to enshrine in the constitution a Voice subject to parliament.
I don’t care how you vote but if you think this referendum will make Aboriginal Australians’ lives better you are kidding yourself. This is a performative measure so that people can feel good about themselves while they continue to live on stolen land and profit from genocide.
Language like may has specific interpretations under law. I’m not a constitutional lawyer but it probably means something like they don’t have to if they have nothing to say but that Parliament has to listen if they do.
My wife works in regulations for chemical imports and it’s full of “aisic may require companies to make declaration” which means “if don’t file imports you go to gaol”.
Nothing in the constitution is particularly rigid. Consider how elections are described. No provisions for how they will be conducted are specified, just that you have to have them and roughly who is allowed to vote.
And yet while not as good as the multi member elections of many European countries our electoral system is pretty good.
I’m trying to understand the No voters.
They’re saying because the details haven’t been ironed out, the Voice could be given much more power than is proposed.
But in their worst case scenario, what do they think is going to happen?
Those insert slur here will get uppity!
That’s their worst case scenario. No longer playing with a stacked deck.
What’s that saying? Equity feels like oppression to the privileged?
At this point I’ve just come to the conclusion the no people are most likely racists in hiding. The whole special rights/excessive powers/etc is just a cover story imo
Ah yes, the many many indigenous people campaigning for no are racist against themselves. You hit the nail on the head.
Probably the worst case for No voters is that the Voice becomes a platform to push for reparations, whereby Australians are expected to pay a tax for events that occurred before they were born or arrived in the country.
People being angry about paying reparations are silly. They act like money is being taken out of their pockets.
The amount of tax we pay doesn’t change, and the tax will be going towards improving peoples lives.
If we’re going to get salty about how our tax money is spent, maybe we should be looking at the billions of dollars given to billionaire companies.
The worst case scenario for them is that marginalised groups might start getting a greater say over the policies and laws that affect them. If Indigenous Australians are awarded more power in a system that is designed to keep them powerless then who knows what other groups in a similar situation of powerlessness might start getting uppity about.
The conservative no campaign don’t want to change the status quo because they don’t have a problem with it. Shit’s working fine in their view. The yes campaign and progressive no campaign agree that the status quo is not good enough but disagree about how it needs to be changed.
If you read the conservative no campaign’s brochure one of the concerns that they have about the voice is that it opens the door to activism. I personally think that is the foundation of their position and everything else is just incoherent fluff to wrap it up in.
opens the doors to activism
Cool, where do I sign up?
The worst case scenario for them is that marginalised groups might start getting a greater say over the policies and laws that affect them.
Ah yes, that explains the marginalised group of indigenous Australians that are against this and voting no. They’re afraid that they’ll get a greater say over policies.
You guys are acting ridiculous, trying to paint every single person that is voting no as a scared racist. As with most other types of activists, you’re doing more harm than good with your rhetoric.
You’d probably be one of those white guys in American saying the “negros” don’t want equal rights or to be able to marry white women for the same reasons lol.
So you think that all indigenous people want this voice?
Look at this fascist white guy. He’s so white he’s black.
I mean Mundie isn’t the greatest person to link to.
He’s not indigenous?
Lets just say he has some problematic ideas. He has been involved in professions prone to causing extensive brain damage. I’m not going to say his entire opinion is wrong but he uses buzz words and phrases that are common is far-right and conspiracy theory circles.
There are more qualified people who have good credibility like Lidia Thorpe who’s arguments are well formed and don’t inadvertently reference less reputable ideas.
