do the right wing guys think it’s like a draco malfoy thing where they’re a good guy underneath?

like when it’s like a lady and a cop and the lady seems like a normal sorta boring suburban lady

do you know what i mean. this is one of the things where if you try to ask an AI bot it yells at you

    • darq@kbin.social
      332·
      1 year ago

      The real issue is an inability to agree to disagree.

      That’s not a fair representation of the people you are talking about. We can agree to disagree about a lot of things. But not about the humanity, dignity, and freedom of people.

      We will never agree to disagree about other people’s humanity. Being willing to do so would make us monsters.

      • MenKlash@kbin.social
        616·
        1 year ago

        But not about the humanity, dignity, and freedom of people.

        Are you referring to the recognition of the problems involving those concepts or the solutions proposed to fix them?

        We can have different approaches and views about a variety of problems, but the concepts would be the same.

        It doesn’t mean we should always make an agreement about how to solve them, but the idea of treating others who don’t think like me as “monsters” just because they are different is populist and dishonest.

        Hating ideas is not the same as hating people.

        • darq@kbin.social
          261·
          1 year ago

          My entire life, for pretty much every progressive issue, has been filled with people saying “We agree with your cause but not the way you are going about it.” literally no matter what “going about it” looks like.

          Every effective proposition is shot down. There is no “solution” that is ever acceptable. Because changing the status quo is always interpreted as too radical.

          So… I’m not keen on playing these kinds of stupid games?

            • darq@kbin.social
              7·
              1 year ago

              Police violence, particularly against people of colour. Protests? Too disruptive! Literally just kneeling? Too disrespectful!

              Even MLK Jr. mentioned this in his letter from a Birmingham jail:

              First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

            • Feathercrown@lemmy.worldEnglish
              52·
              1 year ago

              It’s interesting that people don’t believe you can be this way. Many democrats dislike religion yet don’t treat most religious people badly; there’s no fundamental difference between that and any other trait or belief that would prevent someone from ignoring it while interacting with someone who has it.

              • darq@kbin.social
                1·
                1 year ago

                Because many of us understand that there isn’t a meaningful difference between personal interaction and political action.

                The above person treats the gay people he meets with civility when he interacts with them personally. He also votes for political movements who want to dissolve their marriage and want to treat being gay as something to be hidden from public view.

                That is not respecting gay people. That is not treating them as equals. It does not matter how nice and polite you are to someone’s face if you vote against them being able to live fulfilling lives.

        • darq@kbin.social
          191·
          1 year ago

          And that’s precisely the attitude that prevents people from having a civil debate. By manipulating definitions and using them to represent your opponent as an inhuman villain (or, in your own words, monsters), you’re the one trying to remove someone’s humanity.

          Ironic. By representing a differing view as “manipulating definitions” like this, you pretend I’m engaging in the conversation maliciously, and completely ignore what I’m saying. You aren’t going to get closer to understanding other people unless you engage in good faith.

          In the eyes of progressives, conservative politicians undermine the dignity of minorities. You might not agree with that, you might not care about that, you might simply value other things more.

          And cut the hyperbole. I haven’t tried to remove your humanity. Do you really not know what that is like?

          • intensely_human@lemm.ee
            39·
            1 year ago

            Calling someone a monster definitely dehumanizes them. Calling someone a monster for impersonal reasons simply because of their membership in a particular group, even moreso.

            • darq@kbin.social
              191·
              1 year ago

              So you value you personal wealth ad comfort more than the ability of minorities to live their lives free of discrimination.

              I don’t get why you get so insulted when people point this out?

              • 🇰 🌀 🇱 🇦 🇳 🇦 🇰 ℹ️@yiffit.netEnglish
                310·
                1 year ago

                He said he wants to accumulate wealth for retirement.

                Somehow you heard “and fuck the minorities, too” despite not having said that or even remotely implied that. If he’s insulted, it’s because you’re putting words in their mouth.

                • darq@kbin.social
                  14·
                  1 year ago

                  He said that he values those more than dignity of minorities. Like, not implied it, directly said it.

                  So no. I’m not putting a single word in his mouth.

                  • 🇰 🌀 🇱 🇦 🇳 🇦 🇰 ℹ️@yiffit.netEnglish
                    36·
                    1 year ago

                    In the eyes of progressives, conservative politicians undermine the dignity of minorities. You might not agree with that, you might not care about that, you might simply value other things more.

                    This is what you said. In the eyes of progressives, that is how they see conservatives. In no way, shape, or form does his response to that statement have anything to do with the minoroties, but in the agreement that progressives see conservatives that way.

                • darq@kbin.social
                  171·
                  1 year ago

                  Literally how?
                  You enumerated your priorities, and to quote you: “If a policy helps that cause, I’m in favor of it. If it doesn’t, I’m probably opposed to it.”
                  Eliminating discrimination is not among the priorities you listed.

            • Feathercrown@lemmy.worldEnglish
              5·
              1 year ago

              So to clarify, you don’t support policies that help other people achieve those goals for themselves (assuming they’re neutral for you)?