Everyone is talking about obtaining land and eminent domain and whatnot. …We have streets. 🤷
how expensive would putting elevated rail in the median of the freeways even be?
Overpasses
Move the pillars?
I don’t know where you live but here the clearance on a standard overpass is 14’. This is well under the 12’8 needed for the highway, plus the height of the track base, plus the clearance for the train. So the train would have to be built 30’ in the air. Might as well put it above a road instead.
If you mean “put train on ground in the middle of the highway” we can also do that the hard part is getting to stations not in the middle of a highway.
I vaguely remember something from The Power Broker where an engineer said to Robert Moses with a slight change to the design, at no real cost, they would build the roads so trains could be put in easier at any time in the future. Moses said no. Cars only.
I don’t think putting at grade trains on freeways is a good idea, unless they had a reliable way of warning people minutes before a train comes through
Chicago has a system like this. The main problem is the stations in the literal middle of the highway.
Crazy idea, put the stations at the overpasses. Not all of them, obviously, but you can then make covered walk ways, and hopefully have enough land to put parking decks if needed.
But what about the cars?
They get one lane now. The rest be for the trains
Well of course. Billionaires are motivated to keep an eye on their livestock, but aren’t motivated to make sure their livestock has a good quality of life. I mean how else can they hunt down a woman trying to have an abortion? That’s their future worker after all…
All of that is correct however I am also currently watching my government fail to be able to construct a train station along an existing track. So far the process has been going on for about six years and no one has so much has dug a hole yet. It’s barely even a construction project, they just need to pour some concrete into a rectangle and then add some stairs and call it a station. But apparently even that requires six years worth of committees.
Meanwhile in Scotland, somewhere with similarish land and planning laws. We’re electrifying the whole network, dualing large sections that were single track, removing peak fares, upgrading the rolling stock, and opening brand new stations.
Having a decent rail service is entirely a political choice. Whether those in power want to make it happen or not.
Yes, but the US has legalized corruption we call lobbying. And its working out great for us! /s
All about setting priorities. One could start a war instead, leading to closing and reopening the Straight of Hormuz, a fuckton of civilian and material casualties and having nothing achieved. What’s more “fun”??? Boys be boys, aye?
In early 2010s, I worked in a city that was planning to remove a huge useless highway section. When I moved away from that city in 2025, they were still having hearings about plans to potentially start thinking about removing that highway.
Flock cams don’t even need a power connection because they run on solar+battery, and wireless data connection. You can put one practically everywhere without any preparation - even the post it sits on is pretty optional, could use cable binders to hang them on a tree.
Data centers often get built where land is cheap, and at least in the US there is a (horrifying and stupid) trend to design them to run off-grid with gas turbines, so you don’t even need utilities there, just data connections that you can run underground.
Trains take up a lot of space, and if you want them to be useful, they need to be where the population density is high enough. That means high cost for land, often buying up big amounts of smaller lots where you have to work something out with a multitude of land owners who might not want to part with their - often prime location, because it’s in the city - land. A single land owner not selling their land can grind a project like this to a halt, at least if there is hesitancy using eminent domain, which is a crowbar approach and leads to resistance to your project.
Don’t get me wrong, i really think the USA would benefit greatly from modernizing and expanding their rail network! But realistically, refitting a train line into a city center where you preferably want the station to be is a hard task, doubly hard if you want to actually pass through the city because its not the head end of the line - it doubles the land acquisition woes. A possibility would be going underground, but underground construction is an expensive endeavor, and the US would probably need to get outside expertise from Switzerland or Austria where we construct tunnels through mountains and below cities on the regular to make it work.
The US famously bulldozes whole districts for their stupid highways, to build a whole highway junction inside cities (or whatever is left inbetween highway and parking lot).
Sure both train tracks and highways are harder than flock cameras or data centers, but the US certainly has no issue with building highways. All the issues are home-made. We have the same fucking issues here in Germany, it just so happened that more of our rail network (relative to size & population) survived the neolibertarian onslaught of the past ~60 years.
At the end of the day train networks primarily serve people, not capital.
That wasn’t just for the highway, that was blatant racism to cut through the heart of thriving black communities.
States are using Eminent Domain to support Data Centers.
https://www.tftc.io/ai-data-center-eminent-domain-land-seizures-transmission-lines
the power companies have goodwill with the people because they have proven themselves reliable, amtrak has not in the majority of the country (both trains and powerlines have a significant amount of rural land where trains do jack shit)
It’s a difference between using eminent domain in an area with a very low population density vs. using it in a high density area with very high land prices. Avoiding it in both areas would be preferable, but the second variant is for sure riling people up a lot more.
Trains take up a lot of space, and if you want them to be useful, they need to be where the population density is high enough. That means high cost for land, often buying up big amounts of smaller lots where you have to work something out with a multitude of land owners who might not want to part with their - often prime location, because it’s in the city - land. A single land owner not selling their land can grind a project like this to a halt, at least if there is hesitancy using eminent domain, which is a crowbar approach and leads to resistance to your project.
There’s also interference risks. My city was building out their train network, and had to do extensive testing to make sure that the trains didn’t disturb the university’s experiments. An entire planned hospital was scrapped because it was too close to the tracks, and the trains would interfere with the hospital equipment.
A data centre or cameras wouldn’t have the same risk, so wouldn’t need to go through the same level of approval/testing.
That’s a lame excuse. There are universities right next to heavy rail, with super sensitive equipment. It is all a question of shielding and vibration management. And when it comes ro vibrations, I have never heard of a highway project getting cancelled because of sensitive hospital or research eqipment, have you?
I heard something similar in Vienna - but they were building a hospital near a rail line and then had to retrofit because they underestimated the interference with their equipment.
Hmm let’s have a think about how much each system costs, what the consequences could be if implemented poorly, and how much they involving depriving people of what they currently have?
I mean Flock cameras, if implemented poorly (or successfully) involve depriving people of their privacy and their consequences include aiding aspiring tyrants in violating people’s rights.
Oh yes, that aspect is a deliberate part of the comparison. I don’t know about you though, but I’d rather have a flock camera outside my house streaming my every move directly into the secret service’s masturbatorium than have no house at all, or to have a high speed railway 100m away from my house, depriving me of the peace and quiet I used to enjoy.
(So, in my country the government has to pay me the fair market value of my house, plus an additional percentage, to compel me to sell them my house when I don’t want to, so the former scenario may not work out as a “deprivation” but instead come under the “cost” category - but it’s a cost because the alternative is seriously depriving people of much more than their privacy)
Are there any new datacenters really being built, I have seen several infos that they mostly are “planned” (they order all the pcs & ram etc) but the building itself is often not even started? Especially the power requirements are not factored in, it takes a handful of years to build a power generating central the size needed?
I feel it’s “let’s burn everything to the ground” in a last-ditch effort to prop the AI bubble afloat another month or 3.
Just put the datacentres on trains
“Sloppiercer”
@grok plz generate this movie, no woke
Billionaires hate trains.
Ok, and not to defend it, but it is easier to install a flock camera or build a new building than to redo a logistics network.
We should do reasons instead of ai and flock, but yeah, rebuilding a train system in the US is way more complicated and harder to do.
it is easier to install a flock camera or build a new building
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_(data_center)
785,000 sq ft (72,900 m^2)
422 MW of power.
Over five million gallons of water consumed daily
I can’t imagine how that would have an impact on local logistics or civil planning.
in March 2025, xAI purchased a 1,000,000-square-foot (93,000 m2) site in the Whitehaven area of Memphis… Plans for the expansion were initially revealed by the Tennessee Department of Environment and Conservation when preliminary plans for the facility were filed on September 18, 2024, for the project “…between xAI, Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA), and Nucor Steel…”
Wonder why they need proximity to the nation’s largest state-operated power generation.
Yeah, that’s huge and it sucks on a local level, but making a functioning train network for the US would be something that would have to overhaul the entire logistical network for the whole country. Even if every local and state government was on board and all the citizens were five with it, that’s still a massive undertaking.
It’s one we should do, but it’s still Herculean in scope
making a functioning train network for the US would be something that would have to overhaul the entire logistical network
We have a massive network of legacy rail to exploit. What has been talked about largely involves upgrading and retrofitting existing lines, building out new terminals and expanding old small ones. In particular, just increasing the frequency of service on neglected lines - the San Antonio to Austin route is notoriously neglected, despite being a prime candidate for cheap and easy improvement that would save millions of road hours for intercity transit and exurban commuters.
It’s one we should do, but it’s still Herculean in scope
On a national scale, it is Herculean. But at a thousand individual points, it is a very straightforward and doable job.
this goes into more detail about the problem in a better way than I could
They are consistently full of shit
The Chinese build a 50000 km high speed railway network in 18 years. The first high speed train was in 2008. If there is a will, there is a way. Infrastructure benefits the people.
In California for example the high speed railway was authorized in 2008 for only 795 kilometers long. The project is expected to be completed between 2031 and 2033. So in the same time frame, China build 49205 additional kilometers of track.
In western countries, everything and everyone needs to be consulted and 99% of the time a court case follows because of some animal found or it is too close to houses or whatever shit people think of, causing massive delays. Than of course there are the changes in government. Think about the Biden infrastructure bill that got scraped like the second day the current regime took over.
China can do it faster because it’s a dictatorship that simply takes the land on which it wants to build rail and pays the previous owner. In the US, there are far more legal hurdles for the government to acquire that land. Too many hurdles IMO, but going full dictatorship in order to have rail built faster is not the way.
China has had the most dramatic high speed rail transformation, but plenty of European countries have developed solid systems without going “full dictatorship.”
Also, the USA used to skip over a lot of those legal hurdles when it came time to build a railroad (hence the phrase, “getting railroaded”) but for various reasons we’ve lost the political will to do this.
I wonder about that with the UK. We already have a rail network, it’s just old. Presumably we could upgrade it if we really wanted to without having to worry about securing the land, but there’s presumably just no will to do it.
Again with the propanda. China is not a dictatorship. People actually have a lot of rights and power.
Even more than in the US, strangely when it comes to privacy for example. China has a system almost stricter than the European GDPR. American citizens can only dream of this sort of protection because your government is run by tech lobbyists.
Anyway you’re making excuses for the inability of ‘the greatest country on earth’ to even build proper infrastructure for the people. Not only high speed rail, but the state of the roads, bridges and other crucial infrastructure is deplorable.
So what would happen if I went to Home Depot and rented one of their trucks, added full accident coverage, and then immediately crashed into and knocked over, one of the lamp posts with the flock cameras on it?
A dropship would come flying overhead and combine soldiers would drop down and arrest you, if you’re lucky.
The fascists weren’t the ones trying to build high speed rail, the decorum folks were. In fact, elmo’s entire role was to suck out budget/enthusiasm for the promised future, fail like he’s best suited to do and say oh well, too late.
??? Flock seems shitty (I’m Canadian) but it seems like a lightpole or so. A train and the network requires a million times the property appropriation. And to be effective, a chunk of that should be the most sense/expensive land around!
I am all for calling out privacy-invading cameras but comparing the putting up of small wireless cameras on already existing poles with prepping existing rails for high speed train connections, not to speak of actually buying the trains and maintaining them properly, like what? The cameras have no risks of causing accidents either, aside from people accidentally cutting them down (as one does). So the comparison feels pretty silly to me.
Now compare it to something like building another 3 lanes on a highway, thats more appropriate.
Just one more lane and traffic will be gone. Trust me on this.
