Pay-to-stay (imprisonment) - Wikipedia
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Very weird that I am so old and have literally never heard this mentioned in a TV show or book or movie or anything.

In four out of five states, if you go to prison, you are literally paying for the time you spend there.

As you can guess, this results in crippling debt as soon as you’re released.

The county gets back a fraction of what they hold over your head the rest of your life until you commit suicide(or die naturally and peacefully with the sword of damocles hanging over your head).

$20-$80 a day according to Rutgers.

Counties apparently sue people and employ wage garnishment to get back the money that majority of people obviously cannot pay back.

https://www.rutgers.edu/news/states-unfairly-burdening-incarcerated-people-pay-stay-fees

  • redcalcium@lemmy.instituteEnglish
    181·
    7 months ago

    It would be nice if the prisoners could take class or earn a degree while in prison, at least when they get out they have a new skill or a degree so they have a better chance to get a job to pay off their prison debt.

    • datelmd5sum@lemmy.worldEnglish
      26·
      7 months ago

      In Finland low risk prisoners can even get (or keep) a job. They drive a loaner car from the prison to their job in the morning and then drive back to prison in the afternoon.

          • captainlezbian@lemmy.worldEnglish
            2·
            7 months ago

            Well after they’re done shaking down your loved ones too. It’s ok together you can all theoretically scrape together enough to keep you fed

        • Queen HawlSera@lemm.eeEnglish
          1·
          7 months ago

          It’s actual the one instance where slavery is legal, and most prisoners are black because of obvious racial bias in the court system… I wonder if that’s a concidence…

      • Queen HawlSera@lemm.eeEnglish
        2·
        7 months ago

        As someone who’s lived in the US her life everytime I hear about other first world nations it sounds so idyllic that if you put it in a Utopian Future Sci-Fi novel I’d laugh and call it hopelessly optimistic and just incredibly naive about how humans work…

        But… no… people outside of America actually live like this…

        This is not a cry for help (It totally is, I hate it here)

        But for real though, if America wasn’t a world power (at the expense of its citizens’ well-being) or if there were other world powers strong as or stronger than it that weren’t Russia or China, I would not be even slightly surprised if it offered amnesty to US Citizens fleeing Late Stage Capitalism, at this point it’d be morally justified…

        The UN actually did surveys here and found that Americans (especially in rural areas) experience levels of poverty that said UN believed to only exist in the worst case scenarios of 3rd World Countries. The problem is THAT bad…

        God I hope there’s an afterlife, that may be the only way any of us see true freedom… escaping reality itself.

    • AquaTofana@lemmy.worldEnglish
      8·
      7 months ago

      Omg I can hear my parents now:

      “Wait, I had to work and save and still not be able to afford an education?!?! I sHoUlD hAvE jUsT hElD uP a CoNvEnIeNcE sToRe.”

      I agree with you, 100%, FWIW. I’m just imagining the asinine conversations we’re going to have to have with people who don’t understand that the world doesn’t revolve around them and they’re not the main character.

      • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.worldEnglish
        8·
        7 months ago

        Not always.

        Regardless of the fact that prison education is clearly beneficial for the prison population and wider society, many prison education programs experienced significant budget cuts. States with large prison populations had cut prison education funding by 10%, on average. On top of this, further research has shownthat states with medium-sized populations slashed education budgets by an average of 20%.

        The introduction of the Second Chance Pell Experimental Sites Initiative helped fund additional programs in 2016, although access to postsecondary education in prisons remained limited because the scheme served a maximum of 12,000 prisoners annually. Since, the program has enrolled 22,000 participantsand 130 colleges in the scheme, although only 7,000 individuals have earned credentials. Due to this, many of the 2.1 million people who are currently incarcerated in the U.S. are denied access to education.

        However:

        To find out how people who have been in prison feel about this situation, we conducted a survey of 100 people who have recently been incarcerated. Surprisingly, they told us that they were generally happy with the education opportunities presented to them. Overall, 74% of our respondents told us that they disagreed with the statement “I had no access to educational programs/education whilst incarcerated.”

        As well as being offered an education, many of our respondents told us that they were actively encouraged to take part in these programs. More than 60% of respondents disagreed with the statement “I was not encouraged to participate in educational programs whilst incarcerated.”

        So access to education seems to be one of those things that is at least partially lip service. Education might be offered, it also might be substandard compared to a regular school. However, if it is offered and decent, inmates who have participated in getting a GED or better education state that it did help with avoiding recidivism and having better mental health.

        https://www.degreechoices.com/blog/prison-education-usa/

          • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.worldEnglish
            11·
            7 months ago

            Ok. Glad you weighed in with your expertise. This may not be the exhaustive survey that would offer incontrovertible proof, but it’s what we’ve got. Care to offer anything to the contrary other than an opinion?

            • morriscox@lemmy.worldEnglish
              23·
              7 months ago

              You can cherry-pick anything if you have 22K people to pick from and only need 100. We don’t how and at which point the question was asked. We don’t know the selection process. All we know is that they got 100 people to say something. It shouldn’t matter if we agree with the findings.

              • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.worldEnglish
                22·
                7 months ago

                Ok. So you’re attacking the source, not the argument, while absolving yourself of any effort to contribute to the discussion. Well done.

                • morriscox@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  12·
                  7 months ago

                  Seriously? You seem to only care that the survey results show what you want them to show. Apparently it doesn’t matter how shoddy the survey was done, as long as it says what you want it to say, you’re okay with that and will attack anyone who points out that it’s flawed. This is Anthony Wakefield territory.

                  • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.worldEnglish
                    1·
                    7 months ago

                    No, but thanks for telling me what I’m thinking. I provided some evidence. You complain that it doesn’t meet your arbitrary standard. I call you out and ask you to provide information that contradicts the study. IDGAF, I don’t have a dog in this fight whether the study contains valid data or not, but if you’re going to call “bullshit”, provide contrary data. If all you want to do is complain about the study, there’s the door. I’m here to have a conversation about education in prisons, not your opinion on the study.

    • Queen HawlSera@lemm.eeEnglish
      2·
      7 months ago

      That would happen if Rehabilitation was the goal, that is not the point of the private prison system, the point is to legalize slavery.

    • havokdj@lemmy.worldEnglish
      2·
      7 months ago

      You can, just not a degree specifically but you can get certifications and a ged in prison

      • Ragnarok314159@sopuli.xyzEnglish
        1·
        7 months ago

        I commented this elsewhere, but a lot of those certifications are not worth anything because if you are a felon you cannot get that state license.

        • havokdj@lemmy.worldEnglish
          11·
          7 months ago

          You absolutely can still use those certifications and they are often the stepping stone to help you get your foot in the door in an industry. I used to work IT in corrections and while not everyone winds up making it, I’ve seen felons go on to make $40/hr doing welding.

          I do not agree with the US when it comes to corrections at all and I think it is blatantly abused in order to incarcerate as many people as possible, but I will give credit where it is due, not ALL hope is lost if you get incarcerated

          • Ragnarok314159@sopuli.xyzEnglish
            1·
            7 months ago

            You can use some of them, but there are a few like a barber’s license (in some states) that cannot be used.

            People spend their time thinking they are reinventing themselves in prison only to find out they cannot work in said field/trade.