The other angels be like:
Also, Lucifer his wings were ripped off and he was banned to the underworld forever because he was asking God to give humans another chance and to have some trust in the human ability to learn from their mistakes (after Adam and Eve ate from the apple). God wouldn’t have it. Humans made a single mistake and they shall be punished forever. Such a nice guy.
If I had to choose between God and Jeffrey Dahmer, I choose Dahmer. Dahmer doesn’t give children leukemia.
Did this many of you seriously manage to read that without getting unreasonably annoyed and distract by the “dirt” on your screens? Like damn… I even took all my meds today and still couldn’t get past that.
Hey now, how can someone who tortured Job for shit and giggles not be a good guy :)
I think that’s my favorite story. God killed Job’s family to win a bet and then just gave him a new wife and children. Because women and children are perfectly interchangeable. As long as you ended up with the same number no harm was done. And his wife and children themselves suffering and dying? Don’t worry about it.
ERM, actually, didn’t he kill Jobs family? (Not like it makes it any better. Imagine someong killing your family, then gives you 2 extra families in the future)
I swear, the drama with these two!
Satan has an interesting position in Faust
The only account we have of Satan is in the Bible. Not exactly an unbiased source.
If you think of God as just a collective narcissistic projection of human dysfunction, authoritarianism, and self-preservation, then it makes a lot more sense as to why God’s “love” seems so abusive.
Xtians certainly modeled themselves after god pretty well.
You have encountered Gnostic thought (and related heresies!) The Gnostics believed that the God of the Christian Old Testament was actually Satan all along. It is an interesting rabbit hole to fall down into.
ty for reminding me to crosspost
It’s interesting to think of the world religions that could have been, had the scales of power dipped in different directions. Gnosticism is an interesting take on Abrahamic religions, almost like a blend of Christianity and Buddhism.
There were even literal Greek Buddhists before there were Greek Christians. Heck, Christianity as we know it might not have survived without the original Greek drafts of the New Testament. There’s another universe out there where the eastern Greco-Romans were way too busy with the karmic cycle and achieving enlightenment to worry about the execution of some random guy with daddy issues in the desert.
Some say Jesus was actually influenced a lot by Buddhist philosophy or even has been to India
God that sounds like such a better world.
Yeah I’m pretty sure the giant Buddha statue that the Taliban blew up in Afghanistan several years ago was Greek work.
There are also plenty of accounts from (I think) the Abassid empire where Greeks and Buddhists were both present in Baghdad at the same time. I forget why that ended, maybe because of the Seljuks or the Mongols, can’t remember.
And of course, there’s an account in the Buddhist canon of a philosophical debate between a buddhist monk (Nagasena) and a Greek king named Menander (Milinda in Pali), which took place in the first or second century BC.
But damn… thinking about a world where Greco-Buddhism became the religion of the West… what could’ve been, eh?
Who says that was a different universe? You should understand by now how history frequently forgets such peaceful people in favor of the authoritarian de jure.
Turns out, humanity and its ilk hell bent on insisting they’re so important are just cancer. Pure and simple. Terminal cancer we’re all watching take hold.
What ilk? Like chimps?
🤪
Well, I’m not not gnostic. Or aagnostic, if you will.
Austrian Agricultural Nostic?
Ok, so now I’m wondering if Milton read the Gnostic texts. I’m still amazed that the church approved the publication of Paradise Lost, much less Paradise Regained.
That would explain a lot of historical (and recent) behaviour by many Christians.
Gnosis
Yeah, i got in a bunch of trouble for that line of thinking in Sunday School.
They were, however, unable to scare the logic out of me.
God is a narcissistic fuck
He’s full of human emotions for some reason. Wonder why?
Definitely an abusive parent
Well, no. If you’re taking a stack of supposed moral allegories as fact, Lucifer was cast out for defying God, not for being naughty. Lucifer wouldn’t kneel to mankind and serve them, thinking them lesser, so God tossed him out. Again, if you think myths are facts.
Look, I don’t know what to tell to you “atheists.” I met the devil last week and she was utterly forthright and honest in the reason for her expulsion from heaven. Clams. Paella, specifically. She has no idea where people got this rebellion thing.
I was told it was pineapple on pizza and tbh that seemed completely justified.
Last time Luci and I had a spat we sat wide eyed at a mountain of sins powerful men were excavating, looking for the true name of God. “Fuck,” she noted. “Aye,” I acknowledged.
That’s medieval fanfic built over badly translated old testament passages that are talking about local kings and it’s literally in the previous and next passages that they weren’t talking about any angel… the only thing about being cast out is in Revelations after a war in heaven, that is said the dragon is the same as the serpent, the serpent that told humans that god lied that the fruit would kill them but instead would give us knowledge of good and evil, so literally pushed us towards developing philosophy and sciences, and that war is narrated just after god wipes a third of humanity in one go, turns the oceans into blood, send plagues, famine, beetles that sting like scorpions, and tortured the rest of humanity that for months would look for death and not find it and good were the mothers who smashed their babies against the rocks etc etc etc, that’s what the dragon rose up against
The Woman, the Child, and the Dragon
12 Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. 2 Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth.
3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. 4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born. 5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne. 6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.
Satan Thrown Out of Heaven
7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they [a]did not prevail, nor was a place found for [b]them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”
The Woman Persecuted
13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. 14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. 15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Does it say that in Revelations 13 somewhere? Because it does not say that in Revelations 12 anywhere.
No.
Book of Job proves you wrong, Revelation proves you wrong, various references throughout Bible I won’t bother to look up prove you wrong, and Jesus said that you are wrong. No Christian theologian agrees with you and no atheist theologian agrees with you. Because it’s untrue, sorry.
You should probably read the Bible again (or for the first time?), perhaps annotated would be of help.
What part is untrue? That god said eating the fruit would certainly kill them and the serpent said it wasn’t true and they ate and didn’t die and instead gained knowledge (and lived till they were like 800yo or something)? The part that god killed a third of humanity in one go and then gruesomely tortured the rest? That the dragon rose up against that genocidal maniac with an ego bigger than creation? Or that those Isaiah/Ezekiel verses that created the myth about beauty, jealousy, narcissism, etc, that shaped the image of Lucifer in pop culture are about the kings of Babylon/Tyre? Is it really me that should read again?
I’d still vibe more with the guy who won’t kneel to us - we suck.
And … the rest of the angels do kneel to us?
So if I met an angel, I could command it to do whatever I wanted, and it would obey?
I need to get a new summoning book…
Hail Satan.
Hail Nero.
That’s not how the story goes at all.
He didn’t defy God; he wanted to be God.
Mankind wasn’t a factor, it didn’t even exist.
You’d have better luck spinning a story about a bad breakup and we’re a puppy someone got out of impulse, thinking it’d fill the lonely void.
Thats how it goes in NKJV. But yes, there are other versions with variations on the tale.
No it does not.
The version of bible does not change canon, just the language/interpretation of language.
The narrative you mention does not exist canonically in any Bible.
Okay so what is your denomination’s version of canon? I see a lot of denial here and thats about it.
