If you want democrats to win, you shouldn’t delude yourself with this stupid article that takes the opinion of one undecided voter (asked out of a group of about a dozen people) and pretend this is something that applies to undecided voters at large. This is copium on the level of 2016 and we’d all be better off if we didn’t huff this bullshit. We should be taking steps to improve our chances, not gaslighting ourselves.
I’m laughing that I submit 2 different focus groups of undecided voters saying the opposite and it’s down-voted into oblivion.
But this copium is upvoted…
At least 2 previously undecided voters now support Biden so I suppose this headline is technically correct, it’s just completely meaningless and insignificant statistically.
This comment says it better than I could. The debate was a disaster for Biden. Which sucks.
In this thread:
Everyone not on the Right doing what they do best:
Argue incessantly with one another.
And ya’ll wonder why the Left struggles so often.
This is unfortunately true. We have the same shit in Germany. The Nazis are uniting while the left fight each other because one doesn’t support lgbtq+ enough, the other group forgot to gender correctly, other hardliners won’t go to pro-democracy protests because CDU voters are amongst them. It’s pathetic. We need a strong and united front against the far right. Not this hissy bullshit.
That phrase “Don’t let perfect get in the way of good” is our stumbling block. We want our candidate to support everything we support and no less. Friggin’ Trump is a rapist, a traitor, a racist, etc., but if he says he wants let’s say Christianity to be the national religion, the Christians are like “Hey he supports us, we’ll vote for him,” and completely ignore everything else. Single issue, boom, they’re in. The left needs to value unity over their individual issues right now.
Keep the masses divided and all that jazz
If you want to see a great example of this is in a comment section, watch the comments on Boing Boing for a bit. The site used to be one of the top 100 sites, IIRC, and maybe still is, and the comments used to be rather fun and interesting. In recent years, it’s been take over by a very far-left fringe with a very particular interest in just checking off boxes and playing “oppression olympics”. It’s a textbook case of this. I got on there a few years ago and made a few comments in defense of sanity and unity among the left.
Some of the best posts making great points got taken down in quick order, even though I was entirely civil the entire time. Those arguing against me - if not the mods themselves - were absolutely violating the supposed rules - had theirs all left up, even if it was using things like ad hominem or just using dumb and overused giphy memes as a supposed “response”. Even anyone that tried to cut a middle ground between me and this echo chamber had their posts nuked, too.
Anyone on the fence witnessing such a thing is not going to vote for leftists, I can tell you that much. If they don’t vote for donnie (or his next version), they’ll just sit out on elections.
Not arguing among each other is what helped turn the party of Lincoln to what it is today.
I think its a social defense mechanism, I met an old bastard who saw it in full swing after Catalonia when he was a teen. When a bunch of unions where he lived purged out authoritarian elements especially if they sympathized with the Soviets. Basically use debate to figure out who is stupid, lying, or compromised so that you can deal with them. Such things are helped along by it being a semi-constant force.
Samples size of a focus group on Univision…
It did quote a poll that Biden is only up 1% among Latino voters tho
Fucking insane that it’s that close. But I guess when Biden literally copies trump illegal border policies, it’s hard to get them scared of trump.
tbf, arent those border policies somewhat popular among some latino voters? Im not defending those policies as they dont align with my own views on the topic, but theres plenty of room for people that managed to get through the immigration system legally to look down of people who havent, or for people born in the country to dislike migration even if their ancestors did it, or for people that want to “pull up the ladder behind them” so to speak. Biden couldnt exactly expect Trump’s border policies to automatically win him that demographic either way.
There’s also the fact that cartels run a lot of border towns. It’s not that border area Latinos are mad at illegal migration so much as they don’t want South Texas to be like Northern Mexico.
Also, it’s a little silly to treat Latinos as a single group. South Florida Cubans are different from everyone, basically. Recent immigrants are different from 2nd or 3rd generation ones. Ted Cruz’s full name is Rafael Edward Cruz and he’s different from people who aren’t bozos.
Ted Cruz’s full name is Rafael Edward Cruz and he’s different from people.
he’s a reptillian in a skin suit. so he’s basically different from humans. altogether.
when Biden literally copies trump illegal border policies
There are three big problems with immigration at the present moment:
- There’s a huge backlog of asylum / deportation cases which means people stay in custody in racist and oppressive overcrowded prisons
- We’re rate limiting the people coming into the country (see point #1), which means a lot of asylum seekers who are trying to do it legally wind up waiting for months (maybe years now, IDK) on the other side of the Mexican border, basically just living in a big, dangerous, squalid, crime-ridden open-air field with no facilities for life, and no job, no medical care for anyone no matter how young or old, it’s fuckin dangerous
- The whole agency in charge of the thing is racist and oppressive
Biden is unable fix the third without an act of God (or, without firing the whole system and then finding 40,000+ people who want to be immigration police who are not racist, so basically an act of God).
Biden is unable to fix the first two problems also, although they do have legislative solutions, because the Republicans block anything he does, even when he tried promising to do some cruel or racist things as a compromise in order to get them to also agree to some badly needed things (mostly, increasing ICE funding so they can at least house the people they have in better conditions, and increasing the number of judges to process cases so people don’t wait for a year before their case is heard).
And, any time he tries to do anything about it, e.g. reducing the rate of people allowed to come across the border or increasing funding for ICE, everyone on the left as far as I can tell thinks he’s just being cruel on purpose for no reason and gets really mad at him.
So my questions are:
- What illegal border policies do you think Biden is copying?
- What specific thing do you think he should do, instead of trying to increase the number of judges and the funding for ICE, and compromising with the Republicans to try to get it done when they block him on it?
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Oh, I know. I am just stating the message for the rest of the people.
The bad faith folks used to have these epic debates with me back and forth but I think they have mostly stopped doing that and I am heartened to think that maybe they decided that trying to say anything I was saying wasn’t true was an obvious losing battle and they were hurting their cause by even making the attempt.
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I don’t consider myself a Republican or a Democrat, although unless things change drastically in American politics, I can’t see myself ever voting Republican by the time I’m dead and gone. With that said, I mentioned to someone yesterday that if I didn’t have the experience of living through Trump’s time in office, this debate would make me seriously consider voting for him.
I really don’t believe that this debate is going to sway many undecided voters toward Biden. If you compare their performance at face value, Trump was unusually well-spoken, and Biden seemed like he belonged in a nursing home. Half of what Trump said was complete bullshit, but how many undecided voters are actually reading articles that show how full of it he really is?
What you have is a person who stated lies as fact and did a decent job of being convincing and a person who was generally truthful but seemed like he “wasn’t all there.” Undecided voters who “don’t follow politics” are going to see this and say “You know, I think I understand why people support Trump.” That’s a very scary prospect.
I don’t dislike Biden, but my personal opinion is that the best thing he could do for the country is step aside and let a different Democrat take the nomination. Geriatrics like Trump and Biden need to retire, do whatever they feel like in their golden years, and let someone else take the reins. A competent politician in his 50s or 60s would absolutely destroy Trump, and that’s exactly what we need right now.
What you have is a person who stated lies as fact and did a decent job of being convincing and a person who was generally truthful but seemed like he “wasn’t all there.” Undecided voters who “don’t follow politics” are going to see this and say “You know, I think I understand why people support Trump.” That’s a very scary prospect.
to be fair to Biden, he wasn’t all there. I mean, he had a cold, and if that doesn’t fog things up, the medications would.
But, I feel like somebody on his Campaign programing team should have pointed out that if the win-conditions for a successful debate is literally staying alive (see John Olliver rant,) that there wasn’t really much to be gained by it in the first place. it’s not like we don’t know their positions. we’ve already had 4 years of these guys. (well, 3.5 for biden. close enough for politics.)
This is literally a new article about an X post where they’re interviewing some Latinos… Objectively, the cope is insane. Joe is fucked
Yeah this is reporting on the feedback from a focus group of like 20 people conducted by some Latino TV station… Not sure how representative that is of the wider electorate…
As a decided Joe Biden voter I am confused but I thank you.
https://www.axios.com/2024/06/28/joe-biden-replace-us-elections-2024
All undecided voters in a U.S. swing states focus group hosted by pollster Frank Luntz said President Biden should be replaced as the Democratic nominee after watching his first presidential debate against former President Trump.
Newsweek is tabloid-adjacent.
Biden is underperforming his 2020 run by pretty much every metric. It’s time to try something different while we still have time.
Lol. There is no time. Replacing an incumbent at the last minute is a death sentence for a political campaign. It would be the most foolish option. Even if Biden came out and said he’s stepping back and letting Kamala Harris take the spot, you’d be fighting an uphill battle for people who haven’t been paying attention to her work as VP, which the uninformed thinks does nothing.
That’s not even taking into account all the sexist and racist shitheads who have been doing all the fear mongering and hand-wringing about the prospect of Harris becoming president by simply being VP. We have a bunch of really shitty people in this country…
That is complete and utter bullshit and smarter minds than me are already advising it, including one of the biggest analysts in the industry, Nate Silver. Here, let me walk you through it:
I’ve thought this through for quite some time and I think you’re missing the opportunity for Democrats to seize the narrative.
- “We listened to voters who were unsatisfied with either candidate, a large majority who said age is a real concern for them.”
- “Joe Biden stepped down for the American People to let a younger generation lead.”
- FREE VIRAL MEDIA TIME for months on end about the fresh face of the Democratic party.
- A complete lack of developed right-wing talking-points to disseminate.
It doesn’t have to – nor should it be – Harris. I can think of half a dozen other candidates with semi-national profiles who could easily surge in polling with such viral media attention following a Biden resignation.
All we know is what doesn’t work, and what doesn’t work was shown last night. It has been showing in poll after poll after poll despite people burying their heads in the sand: a President with approval ratings in the 30s, and a Presidential candidate who is FAR behind in every data-point compared to where he was in 2020. Need I remind you that Biden took this debate out of pure desperation to begin with, and now he’s now 2 full steps further back than where he needs to be as my link on battle-ground undecided voters proves.
I’ve listened to Jon Stewart, Katie Couric, 2 different NYT podcasts, post-PBS analysis, Pod Save America (former Obama/VP Biden staffers), Washington Week roundtable – and they are all echoing the same fucking thing:
It is time to try something different.
Given the timing that nearly all the primaries are done, his replacement would necessarily be someone no one even has the chance to vote on. This is a tremendous risk.
However, if he announced someone like “announcing my new chief of staff: Obama”…
That would be interesting and I’m frankly open to it.
I don’t think people not voting is a big deal because frankly we didn’t have a legitimate primary season this cycle anyway. More importantly, if Biden himself voluntarily stepped down and endorsed someone else, then that at least channels those votes through Biden.
I’m laughing my ass off that you even try to source Nate Silver. Member when he was right those two times a long ass time ago? 🙄
You checked his accuracy rate, friend? It’s not good. He makes prediction models, buddy. Well, then after they aren’t very good, he writes a ton about how they were actually great and everyone misunderstood what the data REALLY was saying.
I’m laughing you don’t seem to understand how statistics and probability work. But please, DO tell how he was wrong – I’m going to enjoy this.
But hey, excellent attempt to cop-out of the myriad of other points in my comment, buddy. Can only respond to maybe 10% of a comment but want to try to take down a leading statistician? Okie-dokie!
Man its already a death sentance. They can’t hurt it any more than than that debate did.
As literally every single outlet has already pointed out, plenty of other candidates have had the same issue, and come right back from it. Y’all need to chill out.
You cannott undo dementia or Alzheimers the mans brain is going. With how few press conferences and speeches he has done without a teleprompter its fairly clear that this is NOT new.
He needs to grow a pair and gracefully step down, or he is just handing this to Trump on a silver platter.
If Biden is the head of the ticket he’s going to lose. Full stop.
Absolutely. And given his rate of decline, how fucked are we if he suffers a medical emergency one month out?
Democratic party would crush it if only they replaced Biden with a younger candidate. I’m telling you, even republicans might switch over and vote democrat if this happens.
Lol, have you seen a Republican recently?
Yes, have you?? I actually happen to live amongst them, which may sound exotic to some Lemmings.
“I hate Trump, but Joe is a walking corpse” is not an uncommon sentiment.
Are they aware that even an almost-corpse could follow their advisors and therefore end up having an effective presidency? As long as Biden doesn’t start doing random senile shit (and be realistic, he’s far from that)
To a lot of these voters it’s not about having a logical cabinet nor even policy. It’s the individual as a character representing our nation, and to them Trump is better spoken than Biden even if what most of he says has little basis in reality.
This is why Obama had such a good time with swing voters, it’s not really about the policies from what I see. I’m shocked no party since 2008 has tried running a younger candidate. I’d love to see someone younger debate Trump. Like Pete Buttigieg for example. Like ya he’s still a career politician, but I suspect he’d do much better at making the insane stuff Trump says sound insane.
If they haven’t changed their minds yet, then they aren’t going to. It’s time to try someone different.
Besides, you’re not even needing Republican votes. You just need undecided votes and to energize democratic voters who hate both candidates with age being a big factor.
The presidency needs to be reframed. It’s not some position of ultimate power. Presidents have far less control than the general public thinks, or the media would have you believe.
To get anything lasting done you need all three branches working together and with this court, and congress…
I actually happen to live amongst them
I do too, which is why I know that you are wrong.
If Biden decided to step down, his delegates are pledged to support Kamala Harris. So it’s either him or her.
Still certain Democrats would crush it without Biden?
If Biden decided to step down, his delegates are pledged to support Kamala Harris.
I’ve tried to verify that this is the case and can’t find evidence anywhere. Can you point me to a source? I was under the impression that they’d be expected to turn to her, but that they’re not required to.
Edit: After lengthy back and forth, it finally became clear that this is simply an opinion. User has absolutely no proof.
They aren’t required. But Biden/Harris delegates aren’t chosen randomly, they are Democrats who have demonstrated loyalty towards Biden and Harris and have personally pledged to support them.
But they’re not “Biden/Harris delegates”. They’re Biden delegates, as he was the only name on the ballot. Are you just saying they’ll go with her out of deference?
Fair point. I think they would absolutely go with Harris. Partly out of deference, partly because she would remain in control of the Biden/Harris $100 million warchest and ground operations org, partly because her name can’t be taken off the general ballot in multiple states, and partly because Democrats need to campaign on women’s rights and it would look awful to pass over a Black woman.
I also think that Newsom/Whitmer/Beshear/Pritzker et al are not interested in replacing Biden. They will inherit chaos, are very likely to lose in the general, and that will be the end of their presidential aspirations.
partly because her name can’t be taken off the general ballot in multiple states
Again, where is your proof of this? Ballots haven’t been finalized anywhere in the country, as Biden isn’t even officially the nominee yet. You keep saying these things as if they’re set in stone, but from what I can tell they’re not. Do you have proof that ballots have been printed before the convention, or that states have closed the registration window for running mates before closing the registration window for candidates?
Note: I agree with the rest of what you said, for the most part.
As you suggest it’s a regulatory problem. There was a recent kerfuffle involving the Ohio ballot, which was solved by putting Biden/Harris on the ballot before they are officially nominated. So any changes made at the Democratic convention will come too late to change the Ohio ballot.
There was a similar issue in Alabama, but it looks like they just moved their deadline after the convention.
Will someone please come out and say what the problem with Kamala Harris is? I see people hinting about it all the time, but I have no idea what it’s all about.
Her record as DA is problematic for a lot of people. She was labeling herself as a progressive, but then behaved as a conservative. Fought to keep a lot of people in prison for minor offenses, fought to keep the death penalty, etc. While doing that, she had a book out about criminal justice reform… and went against her own advice. Pretty much a lap-dog for conservative criminal justice policy. Overall, blatantly hypocritical to anyone that was paying attention.
Thanks for explaining.
I have a problem with many of her past decisions but, the same goes for Biden. Both are still a significantly better choice than Trump.
Is she pro genocide? My only problem with Biden is his age and Israel policy, and I have no idea what hers are.
Unfortunately, anyone who has any real chance of being president isn’t going to do anything meaningful to stop what is happening in Gaza.
It’s because she’s a woman. They’re scared.
It’s certainly true that women who rise to the top of national politics get relentlessly, negatively caricatured (Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi). With Kamala Harris it’s different because a lot of the murmuring comes from Democrats and they never say why.
This is not surprising, because everyone knows Latinos are avid golfers. Why wouldn’t they support the candidate with a 6, uh, I meant 8, handicap?
But I was told that all Biden’s answers were completely incoherent? You’re telling me that the media is making a big deal out of a few moments in the debate?! That’s never happened before!
I’m a staunch Bernie Sanders supporter. I have worked for his team.
I don’t know how else to say this: Joe Biden’s performance last night was a caricature of every negative stereotype the opposition throws at him.
I’m really disheartened that my fellow Democrats don’t see the glaring issues from the debate. Did you watch it? This question might seem inflammatory, but I am genuinely concerned.
I desperately wanted Trump to be frustrated by having his mic muted, but I never expected Biden to become the caricature the GOP was hoping for. Unfortunately, that’s what happened.
Ignoring what just happened is dangerous. It’s this kind of blind dissent that got us Trump in the first place. We’re in trouble. If we ignore it now and end up with Trump again, the blame will be on those who are ignoring the problem right now.
I watched maybe 3 minutes. Turned it on about 35 minutes into it. It was apparent within the first 15 seconds that it was a problem.
I don’t know how else to say this: Joe Biden’s performance last night was a caricature of every negative stereotype the opposition throws at him.
I was reminded of all the ageist insults that Clinton supporters said about Sanders when he was a spry young 75.
We’re basically hooped unless Joe decides to throw in the towel. Just about anyone not psychotic half his age could very easily beat trump. How do we get there?
My main concern is that many fellow Democrats aren’t seeing the issues with Biden’s performance. This blind spot is dangerous and reminiscent of how we got Trump in the first place. Ignoring these glaring issues won’t help us move forward. We need to recognize and address these problems now.
At the end of the day, I trust the people around Joe to, at the very least, not maliciously fuck over the country. Can’t say the same about Trump.
With these two choices, I’ll go for not fucking over the country thank you.
There’s no way to replace Joe without his consent. Do you have any real ideas how that can be accomplished?
Do you have any real ideas…
Sorry, where did I say I was here to solve a problem?
Just pointing it out. Cheers.
Hardcore dems have always been delusional cultists with zero self-awareness.
🙄
No man it was legitimately bad. Biden did horrible. I’m terrified that we’re gonna see a significant slip in the polls after that disaster.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Headlines about the Biden stumbling over his words and being difficult to hear have not stopped since he and Trump went head-to-head in the first 2024 presidential debate in Atlanta.
One man said he would vote for Biden because “Trump sounded like a crazy liar,” according to Matt A. Barreto, professor of Political Science and Chicana/o & Central American Studies at UCLA.
His growing popularity among Latinos, as well as with other minority groups like Black Americans, is often cast as a surprise given his rhetoric about Mexican migrants.
When it came to the topic of immigration in Thursday’s debate, Trump said, among other things: "There have been many young women murdered by the same people he allows to come across our border.
Trump and Biden made reference to a recent headline-making case in which two Venezuelan men, who entered the U.S. illegally, were arrested on suspicion of killing a 12-year-old Houston girl whose body was found in a creek after she disappeared while walking to a shop.
Researcher economist Elisa Jácome concluded that “immigrants with lower levels of education today are significantly less likely to commit crimes than their U.S.-born counterparts.”
The original article contains 562 words, the summary contains 192 words. Saved 66%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
This message brought to you by the Ministry of Truth.
War is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength.
And to add something with more substance than straight eye rolling sarcasm, amazing that the non-english speakers loved his performance.
Lets get one of those translators on the ballot.
Old Joe Biden in the only politician to ever beat Donald Trump in an election, and he’s going to do it again, and that’s the fact Jack
Fun fact, Trump ran for the Reform Party nomination, which eventually went to Pat Buchanan, back in 2000.
I was gonna respond directly, but then I saw the lineage of this post.
It is literally a hall of fame battle of people I blocked on kbin.social (you included you boomer boot licking fascist with the audacity to have the immortal Johnny Ramone as your profile pic) vs people I loved on kbin.social (who sometimes get a little tied up in the weeds, but are thorough and actually put effort into processing new information).
Low key crushing on you all… and getting my block button fired up for half yall.
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
Downvoted for literally an accurate 1984 reference with no other commentary.
It just seemed to fit so perfectly. Bluster is not going to see the Democrats through this election.
Bluster is all they have left, so let’s blow the left half of America’s mind and have a Bernie/Khanna ticket.
How rad would that be?
Bet it could beat Trump.
After Biden gets kicked for age? I don’t think it would fly. We need someone in the goldilocks zone if we’re doing this at all.
So… Khanna?
Tell us again how you’re not MAGA? Nearly everything you post is the same repetitive anti-Biden rhetoric. Yet never offering any realistic suggestions to overcome the problem. Nothing but negativity and pointing out flaws.
That essentially the definition of propaganda.
“Everyone to my left must be maga!” - centrists who want to discredit anyone to their left and only their left by lying about them.
Says the guy who magically arrives to defend the MAGA bots any time someone so much as looks at them.
You lied about blocking me, and the only “evidence” you ever have about someone being a “maga bot” is that they don’t agree with you.
Did I?
Or did you not read what I said about blocking you? Maybe go back and reread my words. Then come back here and apologize for accusing me of what seems to be your singular purpose here.
Pure copium.
