Robert Loggia and David Lynch have something to say about this:
You can’t do this in LA, but LA fucking sucks so fuck 'em haha.
I’ve always followed the rule of 1 car length for every 10 miles per hour you’re going.
I always (sometimes) do three seconds between me and the car in front of me. That automatically adjusts for increased speed.
3 seconds when under 65. 5 seconds when it’s raining or I’m moving faster than posted highway speeds. It pisses people off but I’m hauling a ton of steel and plastic around, I’m not going to risk my life and everyone’s around me just because some guy is late for work or can’t be patient and needs to get where he’s going a few seconds before me. People tend to lose the reality of the situation when driving their super fast metal explosion machines.
When I did driver’s training, they recommended about 2 seconds of distance. I find it to be a reasonable distance most of the time.
2 seconds is not enough. Average human reaction time takes more than half that time. I was also taught to keep 3 seconds minimum distance on average 80 km/h zone. Faster driving, more distance should be kept.
How am I supposed to leave 10 car lengths while speeding through a school zone? Explain!
If it’s a school zone you leave 10 school bus lengths.
The gap you leave should be speed-dependent and about 2 seconds to allow for reaction time. Yes, this caps the highway’s capacity to 0.5 cars per second per lane but roads are inherently inefficient.
Aye, and 2 seconds is the bare minimum. A company I have worked for wanted 4 seconds between you and the car in front. That always felt a little much, but it definitely helped prevent wrecks.
2 seconds assumes an instantaneous reaction and perfect road conditions. In the EU they’ll teach you about 3s and at least +1 in poor conditions.
In my state, it’s one car length(15-20 feet) for every 10mph. Good luck getting anyone to actually follow it though! Getting on a major highway here is like the Autobahn.
2 isn’t much, over here they recommend 3 at highway speeds
I was taught to look when the car in front drives past a landmark like a lamppost, then say to myself “Only a fool breaks the two second rule”
If you pass the lamppost before you finish saying it, you’re too close
This is the only good answer. No need to distract yourself by figuring out your speed and guesstimating your gap like others are saying. Just count the seconds whenever you need to
3 seconds is the guideline I’ve been taught here in Sweden, but yeah. Riding too close is crazy dangerous and I don’t understand why people keep doing it.
It’s a nice thought, but it has so many modifiers it’s pretty much worthless. Everything from road conditions, to time of day or night, to the size and weight and type of vehicle you are driving, to how old you are affects stopping distance and the interval you should be leaving.
Remember children - Driving should never be “relaxing.” It’s real work and demands your total concentration to protect yourself and everyone around you. So put the phone down and even turn off the radio. Put your head on a swivel like a fighter pilot. And have an escape plan for every inch you drive.
I don’t know why you are being downvoted since the distance from other cars should absolutely reflect the current conditions. I also agree that to drivers need to proactively look for possible collisions in mirrors and blind spots, though they should be generally calm and patient when driving.
I think they are getting down voted due to distracted driving
Driving isn’t supposed to be as stressful as this comment put it. If it is then you shouldnt be allowed to drive.
The simplified distance rule we learn in europe is: half your speed (km/h) in meters or as an equation, v/2000. E.g. you drive 120km/h, keep 60m distance.
I’ve always preferred the 2 second rule. You don’t need to do distance math in your head, just find a tree and count the time it takes to get from their car to yours.
In my country it’s 3 seconds out of town and 2 seconds in town, by law. And I think that’s beautiful.
In the US, usually it’s one car length per 10mph.
Probably not much more intuitive than yours, but less math required on the fly.
Tbh the math required is pretty similar, I just divide the speed by 2 and am done.
That’s very reasonable if you’re accustomed to operating in metric … Which we all should be, but here we are.
We all should be?
Ah, that could be interpreted at least two different ways. I have a suspicion of how this conversation will go, but I’m interested to find out.
It’s my opinion that the metric system is superior to the imperial, so we should all be primarily exposed to the superior system. Some may disagree and I won’t claim that I’m objectively correct. No worries if you disagree - regardless of my opinion, the imperial system is what I’ve been exposed to and what I use.
Alternatively, the statement might be interpreted as “you should be familiar with the metric system even if you reside in a country where it’s not the primary system.” That’s probably less true - while it might behoove one to be familiar with the metric system, I don’t blame the individual for the limitations placed on them by the government, regardless of what’s better.
If you have a third interpretation, it’s probably not what I meant, but I would be interested in hearing it.
In France the way we learned is (for the highway at least)
- 110km/h: 5 small markings between you and the other car
- 130km/h: 2 large markings
I just leave enough room to come to a stop in the gap between us.
That’s the underlying reason to keep distance ofc. The rule of thumb gives you an easy to calculate solution to how far that approximately is.
I don’t need math for this. Once you have a feel for your car you can just visually gauge it in an instant.
Judging by how close people follow me on the Interstate, I have a feeling most drivers think this but only a small percentage can do it effectively.
And judging by how close 9 out of 10 pickup truck drivers
followtailgate me on the interstate even when I am doing 10-15 over, I have a feeling most don’t care and would prefer to run me over in their lifted Rams and SuperDutys.Some of us don’t have LIDAR-eyes, cut us some slack
Do European cars come with distance measuring equipment??
Many places have roads markers every 100m. Or you can count the seconds from any fixed point and figure it out.
No but humans typically do
Only in cyberpunk literature.
“In the year 2147, technology has given humans abilities beyond the natural senses, it has given them… eyes.”
Eyes can’t measure distance. You can only make rough estimations.
I like my distance estimates the way i like my toilet paper
rough
I may not be good at giving it a number, but I can usually see how far apart two things are.
Humans aren’t actually that good at visually measuring distances.
If you’re only two lengths away from the car in front of you while driving at highway speeds, you are tailgating. Back off. It’s far more dangerous than speeding.
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Help me out with this, because it’s driving me crazy. Whenever I leave anywhere close to 2 seconds between me and the car on front of me, someone cuts in, and I’m now too close to them, so I slow down, leaving a 2 second gap, and another cuts in. Rinse, repeat. I end up being the slow ass that everyone keeps zooming around unless I tailgate.
Just… Don’t care? Let people in and adjust the distance with them. Driving is an involved process, get a car with adaptive cruise control if you want one that will do exactly that for you.
I guess it’s more than just “caring” - I feel that we’d all be a lot safer if we were all going the same speed instead of inviting people to dodge in and out
But people need to change lane sometimes and if you’re the one giving them the space to do so then more power to you, don’t complain
It would be safer if we were all riding the train/bus. Getting in a car in america is accepting the risk that you share the road with everyone. no matter the qualifications or mental state we still all gotta get to work/grocery store/wherever, and the only way is by ~4000 pound metal speed box.
Worrying about safety on the highway is about making sure you are in situations you can handle and react to, staying attentive to the styles and mental states of other drivers and being a step ahead of the road conditions
Unfortunately I can’t see how public transport would be feasible without accepting that the vast majority of places I might want to go are simply inaccessible, and the places I could go would take 3-5 times longer. Case in point, there are no public transportation options to get to my son’s high school. It would be a 35 minute bicycle ride. I can drive there in 12 minutes. Getting to my local Wegmans would take 37 minutes by bus. I can drive there in 9 minutes. I live on the outskirts of a medium size city on the east coast in a low density residential neighborhood.
Beyond “don’t care” - you get to be the traffic hacker who improves traffic for everyone. yayyy
Credit for above I think: Traffic Waves
Anyone who wants to test how this can work?
Check this old-school site:
Just be safe. You’re still close to your desires speed
It just be that way. Idiots will see your safe following distance as their opportunity to switch lanes. Just keep being the safe one.
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Let them hop in and keep your 2 seconds. I used to have a 40 minute commute and on a busy morning would have 10-15 people do that. Know how much time that sets me back? 20 to 30 seconds. Following this rule I have a 25 year clean driving record and I guarantee these lane hoppers can’t make that claim
it’s probably even less, maybe even negligible because of traffic lights at either end: you can’t calculate a single journey because you’re never going to hit the same light exactly the same every time. I have four lights between my house and the freeway, and 7 between the freeway and one of the sites for my job. Each one adds between 0-60 seconds randomly for an average of 6 minutes sitting and waiting per day. I would have to have a commute of like 120 miles of uninterrupted freeway driving for that to matter.
At 65mph, you cover two car lengths (~30 ft) in about 1/3 of a second.
Typically human reaction time for braking is about 1.5 seconds.
If something went seriously wrong in front of you (like a sideways car, or a hidden obstacle in front of the car in front of you) you would have covered 10 car lengths before your foot touches the brake pedal.
nothing gets me more pissed off than when I’m driving the speed limit on an open road with an open passing zone, no one coming towards me or ahead of me, and some dipshit decides to ride my ass
Then you need to lift off the accellerator, don’t brake check or anything, just slowly slow down.
If the car behind you won’t give you enough safety margin to maintain a high speed, then your only option to maintain safety is to reduce your speed so that the safety margin they give you is enough to stop in time for an accident.
Here in Sweden we have plenty of roundabouts, I will use those to also get rid of annoying drivers who just can’t manage their distance, if I have someone like that behind me when I get to a roundabout, I just drive a full lap of the roundabout and let them pass.
I will allways let these guys past when I can, they are in a rush to their own accident, and I am not, let them pass and and make them stop being my problem, if I can’t find a place to let them pass I will reduce my speed to compensate for their lack of safety margins
Sometimes I increment my cruise control down a mph at a time to see how much I can get them to slow down
I just clean my windows.
The speed and distance will make it so all the cleaner fluid will spray on their windshield. Making it all nasty.
Feels like I am driving a spy car.
My car can only increment in 5km/h steps, snd it is a bit too large to do this, but I would do this if I could
I already subconsciously do this because I know it pisses them off, but I like your justification much better
It isn’t even a justification, it is simple defensive driving, as I was taught in driving school, and reenforced by my dad many times.
Its always a huge pickup truck too. I look in the mirror and just see the front grill
Or you’re in the right hand lane and people are still tailgating you even though you’re going 70mph.
Some people are unnecessarily aggressive on the road. Probably because they have unresolved emotional issues and take it out on other drivers. At least that’s what I tell myself.
Probably because they have unresolved emotional issues and take it out on other drivers.
Oh they absolutely do.
Besides guns, motor vehicles are probably the most physically powerful things most of us (in the US) have the freedom to control in our lives. And there are almost no restrictions on allowing someone to drive when they can’t or won’t regulate their emotional state.
Try putting on your right blinker, sometimes they get the message you’re encouraging them to pass.
If that doesn’t work, there’s always the Chechen wave
*Check local state laws for applicability
If what you’re doing makes idiots angry, feel good about yourself and keep doing it.
I’d be fuckin raging if someone was driving two car lengths behind me. That’s fucking idiotic
Yeah, when you’re going 90km/h, it’s fucking idiotic. It’s way too fucking close, you’re going to kill someone. Random brake check incoming!
I’m always tempted to do the brake check thing, but that’s fucking idiotically dangerous as well!
I just take my foot off the throttle and gradually slow down until the shitty driver passes me
Of course true, just a dream 🥲
I assume the post is describing a 20 mph school zone because then yes, perfect thanks
Why? Do you want them to tailgate you instead?
That is tailgating!!! 😂
If you think two car lengths is tailgating, you haven’t seen nothing yet!
More space means less braking, reducing bunching up. Check this article on traffic waves out
I tend to annoy people by dropping off the gas much sooner for lights than strictly necessary, but by gently slowing I both save gas, wear and depending on the timing of the light I can often even time it to miss the red entirely
I just moved to Michigan
I have never seen a group of drivers so committed to Tail Gateing … Like it’s the state sport
Visit Tennessee and get back to me. Moving from Tennessee to Michigan I noticed a distinct uptick in the quality of driving.
cries in Houston TX
Wait till u get to DC, MD, and VA. that’ll make u cry even more.
I swear Texas license plates are like warning signs for bad drivers
I was driving in slowish freeway traffic in Detroit and the guy behind me plowed right into me, didn’t even slow down, didn’t even look away. He sort of bounced off of me, pulled onto the shoulder, and squeeled off while I had to find some sketchy spot to stop and make sure my bumper wasn’t dragging too much.
A person I was visiting there in Detroit told me that insurance wasn’t required so many people run off rather than risk getting blamed and the cops wouldn’t even bother with a report.
Insurance is required in all of Michigan, with fines, license suspension, and jail all possible for not having it. With Michigan’s no-fault insurance we have some of the highest rates in the country in Detroit—especially relative to income—and almost no viable alternative to owning a car.
That said, as a native Detroiter I feel safer in Detroit driving around other Detroiters, the suburbanites and out of state folks are always in the way.
I thought I heard that insurance laws changed maybe since then or around that time and there was a reason for a lot of hit and runs. I don’t know, but that was my experience a while ago. The weird part was mostly how the dude had no visible reaction at all except to take off, which probably could’ve been anywhere.
As an out of towner I did have trouble with the short on ramps. I wasn’t sure how to get into a rhythm because there was no place to get up to speed. I didn’t like feeling like I had to shove my way in and it was hard to tell how to let others in safely. I suppose you just know those things when you live there long enough.
Those are some of the first below-grade expressways built in the country, so the shorter on ramps are from an era with fewer and slower cars, and there isn’t space to lengthen them. The law only changed to stop the insurance companies from using zip codes to determine rates, and reduced the maximum payout for healthcare related costs from a crash, with the aim of lowering costs, but of course the insurance companies worked around it.
I leave enough room for me to have time to react and give the person behind me enough time to react to my breaking. Because most people drive way too close to avoid a rear-end collision if I have to slam my breaks for an emergency. Sometimes that means I’m 4, 5 or 6 car lengths away from the car in front of me, but that has the added benefit of pissing off tailgators who will almost immediately choose to pass me which works out great for me. The less space the person behind gives, the more space I leave between me and the person in front.
Spoken like a true left lane hogger
Edit: OP is bragging about forcing cars behind them to pass on the right because they are too entitled to get the hell over. It’s dangerous and you people applaud them. Pathetic.
Spoken like a true entitled bad driver
Nope, I stay in the slow lane, unless my exit is in the left lane of course.
If they’re matching the pace of the car ahead, explain the offense.
Left lane is for passing. The vehicle ahead of them could very well be just as in the wrong if not worse.
If you’re pacing the car in front of you, you’re already wrong.
Never. Pace. Strangers.
You pass them or let them pass.
I think my biggest pet peeve about driving is when you come to a stop and the car behind you tries to shove their nose up your ass. Like bruh you don’t need to ever be that close
Especially annoying if you’re driving a manual and are stopped on an incline.
I drive a 6 speed. This is where my rage for this comes from.
But even in automatics rollback isn’t uncommon on an incline.
I feel like it really isn’t your fault if you role back 6 inches and hit them. If you were to roll back 4 feet it would be different but in this case you can’t control something so small.
In court it won’t be your fault if they’re that close, but it’s still the hassle of dealing with people who don’t understand basic driving etiquette.
I can usually set off on an incline with no rollback but I’ll be damn if it doesn’t slightly stress me out every time someone pulls that shit.
My driving instructor taught me that I should still be able to see the other car’s back wheels when I stop. I actually don’t know how close that looks from the other driver’s perspective.
Terrible, terrible advice. That leaves a full car-length of empty pavement with the driver sight-lines of modern SUV and crossover designs. Pickup trucks are worse; I’ve seen pickup truck drivers stop a full 30 feet back. It wastes huge amounts of space on the street, and causes traffic congestion. On the other side of the coin, van and bus drivers can still get right up on your ass when following this advice.
What it looks like:
Not actually as the “see the tires” rule is fairly good advise. Keep in mind sometimes it is smarter to give a little more space depending on the situation. Think of it as more of a minimum. Also lose most of your speed farther back and then role forward. This allows for recovery time in case of failure or loss of traction.
if they are following the two second rule they should be less than a foot from your car. If your car is stopped you are always more than two seconds from the car in front of you.
Never heard of that rule. I was always taught to leave enough space that you can see the bottom of their back tires.
I leave enough space to be able to drive around them if I need to
The two second rule is for following distance. Applying it to stopped cars makes no sense at all, but it is funny . You have it right.
Ah I misunderstood. I understand it now.
I can’t believe this comedy gold is not upvoted more. Maybe it needs /s?
Id get that close if I want to give the phone enjoyer behind me plenty of time to stop
So you can hit the car in front of you too?
It’s not only a safety hazard but it leads to slower traffic. If you maintain the right distance at a stop the whole line of cars can accelerate faster because you don’t have to wait as long for the car ahead of you to move. There are zero actual benefits of sniffing my ass at a stop.
phone enjoyer is ungovernable
That doesn’t mean you should be acting like an asshat yourself.
It takes two to tango
calm down
Weird guy is right though. Best practice is to leave enough space so that in the event you get rear ended you don’t get shoved into the car in front of you.
fair point
When I leave two car lengths, four cars will go into it, and at least one of their drivers will throw a half empty beer can at me.
Infinite free beer exploit?
Only half infinite unfortunately
3 seconds is the minimum safe distance, regardless of speed
What is this in imperial? How many bullets per square-child?
3 seconds from you to get to where the other car was previously.
Depends, African or European?
Yes
This is just plain untrue.
In all cases you need to drive to the conditions. Observe your circumstances and adapt your behavior accordingly.
3s is a good yard stick, but there’s plenty of situations in which it is not the ideal safe distance.
At 110km/h that’s about 90 metres. Every idiot around is going to try to move around you to take up that spot. Being overtaken by idiots is unsafe. This is just one example, there’s plenty of others.
