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I think this is also a reminder that people can always try to redeem themselves, and we should allow people to do so.
Too many times I’ve heard “once a maga, always a magat!” Yeah, magats suck donkey balls but a lot of them have been learning and improving and we should applaud that. I want more magats to become ex magat.
Peoples politics,like their gender,is fluid. It can change over time.
As long as it changes to “let’s be better for everyone” and not “let’s be better for me myself and I” like the average Republican
Grew up as a hardcore republican in South Texas. Moved to southern Louisiana and quickly realized, nope not republican, just highly misguided. I was wrong. I admit it to everyone. Now as time has passed, staunch socialist. Such as life.
You are my kin
A few friendly reminders:
It is OK to be wrong. Smart and kind people will not think less of you for being wrong. They WILL think less of you if you dig in your heels despite being presented evidence that proves you wrong.
It is OK to change your opinion or view when given new information. This is how we grow as a species.
I used to be a libertarian and I didn’t believe in climate change. It’s been a long time but neither of those things are true now.
Exactly, dont give in to the narcissists which exist, the world is brighter than initially thought. We grow as a species by examining each others opinions and logically contesting them - changing our own or others opinions.
The amount of narcissists and machavellists is not the majority - but they are the loudest, and that loudness is what makes regular people overwhelmed.
In full honesty people change. This isn’t to forgive negative actions but also not chastise someone to eternity for the mistakes they have made so long as they have changed and are putting in the work to undo the harm they caused. We individually and ultimately as a society need forgiveness. To be human is to error and I personally don’t want a part in any community who can not manage the humility to forgive.
A lot of younger people don’t realize how far we’ve come on gay rights in a very short period.
In 1989 84% of Americans were opposed to gay marriage. It didn’t break 50% support until 2012. By 2024 it was nearly 70% in support, and all 50 states are now over 50%.
Most of us growing up in the 80s and 90s thought homosexuality was wrong. It didn’t feel like we were prejudiced assholes at the time though.
We now know we were wrong, and many of us have worked to make things better. And young people need to accept the fact that we were wrong and have changed.
There’s something else we’re all wrong about now. An unacceptable prejudice we don’t recognize because we don’t feel like we’re biggots. I don’t know what it is and I may never get over it, but the next generation will look back and realize they were wrong about something. And the only way to move on will be to accept they were wrong, forgive themselves, and make the world better.
It’s how we improve as a society.
Gay rights. Women’s rights. Minority rights. There are people alive today who went to segregated schools and, if they had a vagina, couldn’t open a checking account.
These things are being actively scrubbed from history by people who desperately want to go back to those “good old days”. Sadly, it is working much better than it should.
A lot of younger people don’t realize how far we’ve come on gay rights in a very short period.
A while ago I heard recordings of white house press conferences from the Reagan administration when a reporter started asking about AIDS for the first time.
I was just a kid during the Reagan administration, and not the kind of kid that listened to white house press conferences, so I had no recollection of this.
It was shocking to me how casually they joked and laughed about gay people dying and how they made fun of the reporter for asking the question. It was also shocking that it wasn’t just Reagan’s press secretary but also the other reporters joining in and laughing.
I found a link to it for another post recently:
Isn’t it obvious? Something that nobody will deny in a couple decades, for which future generations will curse us?
I’m in my early 30’s and I remember the opposition to gay marriage when I was a kid in the 2000’s, it was strong and very visible. This was in a Southern California beach town, not exactly a bastion of conservatism. Hell, Obama was opposed to gay marriage when he first ran for president. Things changed very quickly as we entered the 2010’s.
those aren’t encouraging numbers tbh.
half of the population hating you is a big deal. half of a state hating you, even montana, is a big deal.
a lot of that approval may have to do with cancel culture as well. people may be hesitant to share their real viewpoints even in supposedly safe environments.
if you’re a man, go out in public wearing pink sneakers and tell me you don’t feel the gaze of other humans.
I’m a huge, bearded white dude in Texas, and I built an AR pistol using a pink arm brace that was on clearance. I put pink rail covers on it, a purple mag, and a pink, green, and purple oilslick bolt.
It gets chuckles at the gun range until I start shooting it. It’s got a 7-inch barrel shooting a 5.56 round, so most of the powder hasn’t burned prior to the round leaving the barrel and it makes like a 6-ft fireball in front of the gun and is stupidly loud.
Centuries of hate going from 84% to 30% in a few decades is fucking fantastic.
Was homosexuality ever popularly accepted between antiquity and the 21st century?
I’m a straight middle-aged man who regularly wears pink shirts and sometimes pink pants. I honestly don’t think anyone has ever given me any kind of look and I’m not the least bit self-conscious about pink clothing.
11 years ago, I was dropping my daughter off at kindergarten and a kid walked up and said, “Hey! boys can’t wear pink!” I smiled and said, “Whoever told you that was wrong.” That’s the only time I’ve ever seen anything.
Is there something specific about sneakers?
Fuck yeah, we need way more of this attitude. Like, sure, there are people out there that do an apology tour as a grift, whatever, but it’s absolutely insane how often people see someone legitimately trying to change and be better and will immediately shit on them like they need to be punished immediately. Do we really want to disincentivise people to change for the better?
I’m 100% unironically for literally punching nazis/fascists when they’re doing their bullshit in public. The number one goal any rational person would have for a fascist is for that fascist to not exist. The best-case scenario for this is for them to no longer to be a fascist and renouncing fascism altogether. We must keep in mind that we must focus our anger on the system, not the people. That means publicly and viciously opposing fascism, but also giving people a way to leave that movement. You don’t destroy the movement by opposing it alone, you must also starve it of it’s members. If enough people leave a movement, that movement loses it’s power. I’m using fascism as an obviously extreme example, but the principle(s) applies for any kind of malignant behavior/system.
When someone tries to leave some hateful bullshit behind, pull that motherfucker in. You lose an enemy and gain a friend. +2, bb!
To be honest though, I feel like queer people that grew up in that period and before were robbed. It sucks and I don’t really know where to place the anger properly. Definitely not on a musician though, personally.
My family, the people I grew up around, yes, but not a musician really, especially when half the time they were probably just looking for an easy rhyme, as compared to someone a foot away from my face saying they wanted to drag me behind a truck. Or saying how wrong it is to be with a guy. I’m not big on ICP but have listened to a few of their songs and if I’m being real I didn’t even notice them saying it. But the other stuff… I don’t think I’ll ever heal from.
Good shit, you get the game. It’s all about numbers good bad or ugly. Hate for the idea and the actions, a way out for those looking to change and join the ranks of the opposition.
I’ve been dwelling on something I overheard for the last week- “that didn’t define me, I transcended it.”
Whether it was something I did / mistake I made or something that happened / was done to me, it doesn’t define me, I transcended beyond it.
Same as if my boot was stuck in the mud, it was only stuck until I pulled it free. Once I wash the mud off, it’s just a boot again.
There’s a story of a rude and hateful boy. He would spend his days hurting others. One day the father said every time you spite someone you will put a nail in our fence. Day after day nails were hammered into the fence. One day on returning home the boy noticed the fence with countless ugly rusting nails sticking out of it and decided then and there to change. Day after day the boy became kind, helpful, and friendly to everyone. The father said to him each day that goes by take a nail out of the fence. Finally one day the boy was removing the last nail. The father said you can work to better yourself and amend wrongdoings but the damage will always be there, be remembered, forgiven but not forgotten. So to my son don’t ever fear working to undo the wrongs you have done but know to mind your actions as they will leave a lasting mark on the world and people around you.
So, the moral of the story is that if you’re too kind and friendly your fence will fall apart.
No
I think it’s pretty clear that if you take all the nails out of a fence it will fall down.
It’s a Japanese fence not held together by nails or glue.
Ah, so nails are a precious commodity, and you should try to make sure you have as many as you can.
so convenient and platitudinous for assholes who find religion and want to seem more mature later. A Mark Wahlberg-esque story for the ages.
I’m more into stoicism personally than religious practices although I can appreciate the better aspects of most faiths. Not so much the unquestionable belief aspect.
Have you ever changed or helped someone change? In my experience there’s ignorance, they don’t really know or see and then they become aware in the same way someone who doesn’t want to do those things is aware and they change.
I can dislike the actions someone has made and yet encourage their efforts to not make those actions again.
Hell yeah, brudder.
It’s not up to you whether or not others change or even care about being good. It absolutely is up to you to show them a better way in your own conduct, and sometimes with words should they be receptive.
Dichotomy of Control, boiiii
I chose my username specifically because I did not realize how misguided I was when I was younger, but when I did see myself I resolved to learn and grow, to be constantly improving myself in some way. That includes reevaluating long-held beliefs, shedding them when they are wrong or hurtful, and apologizing to those who I may have hurt. If it weren’t for forgiveness, both from others and for myself, I don’t know where I’d be right now but I know it wouldn’t be a better place.
All that to say, whoever hit you with that down arrow has lived either a life so pure that they’ve never felt the longing for forgiveness after wronging another, or a life of pitiful ignorance. Understanding and accepting Violent J’s remorse does not mean we condone who he is or what he was, it means we appreciate and respect his humility.
People want to hate and they need anything not in agreement with them to be a totem of pure evil. Actually entertaining reality and humanity as it is is beyond them or not their prerogative. Ultimately drama, war, conflict, hatred and the like are fun or at least entertaining. If it was boring no person would bother with it.
the fact you have to declare this obvious truth tells you that america hasn’t changed much at all. we’re just shitty in different contexts.
It could be a lot better and there’s some backsliding but it is indeed better than other places. Where I live most of the year homosexuality is illegal and people are regularly killed for it with zero recourse. Similarly any statements against the government are met with a similar outcome. Even before the last protest could organize people were killed in their homes. Now as for the US in some ways it’s a lot better than its ever been and in others it’s worse. It’s usually like that anywhere. I wish reality was as simplistic as your comment is hinting at. I will say everywhere I’ve been on this earth there are good, kind, compassionate, and loving people doing their part to make the world a better place.
So we’re just supposed to forgive someone who made a career out of spreading homophobia? Violent J is still making money off his homophobia from royalties. Have you listened to ICP? They’re pretty explicit about not viewing the LGBT community as people and how they don’t have any right to exist. Violent J made his bed, now he has to lay in it.
I don’t spend much time in my life thinking about such people to begin with but I also wouldn’t shy anyone away from their attempts to change into better people. There’s a lot more he could do and I hope that he does.
Totally agree with you.
So many asshole bullies spend their childhood, teens, and 20s treating people like shit… and then suddenly, when they are older, when they’ve already gained status among others for being vicious to those they are weak, they have some “epiphany” about being nice and change their tune… after they’ve accrued the status, and advantages, and after being unkind to the weak, many of whom suffered trauma and some of whom committed suicide.
Those people are still culpable for being shitty people.
Much in the same way some people haven’t denounced the the war crimes occurring against people in Gaza, but years later will almost certainly say “I was wrong then, I didn’t full understand the situation,” the world is full of liars who do what is convenient and don’t care about being nice to other people. Fuck those “turning over a new leaf” people who find morality when the political winds change.
If this guy wants to go donate a million dollars to the Trevor project, then maybe he’s really sorry. Otherwise, fuck him, fuck his family, fuck everyone he knows. I hate scum like this.
Not just people but societal norms. I’m not going to judge anyone for being homophobic decades ago, but this side of 2015? Bro, get with the program.
People are messed up, man. I’ve still had someone flat out say “that’s a gay name” to my face. About my name. Without knowing anything else about me. Weird, man. Like, I’d even accept somebody saying it out of anger in traffic as being easy to brush off. But some people, man.
Acknowledging someone’s humility and accepting their remorse does not mean we have to condone who they were, nor do we have to like who they are now. Wisdom is not measured by how early someone learns a lesson, but by their willingness to learn it when the lesson finally arrives. Be careful dismissing another’s growth; none of us can know which of our current beliefs or biases we may one day regret.
Willingness to admit he grew up is something refreshing to see happen.
Based on that alone a safe bet can be made about his politics.
yaknow, lots of people make fun of juggalos, but most of the ones ive met have been incredibly caring people that don’t judge lol
Well yeah, otherwise they’d be called judgegullos.
I want to give this person a huggalo.
C’m’ere broggalo 🫂
Pass around the Faygo so we can all have a chuggalo
Dad?
Probably not. My kids are all monotonic.
O.o
Clearly you have your ducklings in a row
Hi Gay Juggalo, I’m Dad.
Happened all of those years ago? You said you were just going down to the corner store for some weed and faygo!
*Sad woop woop noises."
*woop womp*
They seem to be mostly kind hearted folk that are about the (actual, not proverbial) filthiest humans on the planet.
Like they’re gross AF but friendly too. It’s certainly a weird subculture but I’d hang out with a juggalo over a MAGA bro any day of the week.
Why are they gross?
Like, physically covered in dirt/grime and stinky. I can only offer anecdotes in the original commenters defense, but they’re not entirely wrong lol. Couldn’t tell you why that is but the few juggalos I’ve known personality were… musty
Not to be too ableist, but there is a lot of autism and/or ADHD in nerdy subcultures and many times self-care gets neglected due to hyperfocus, distraction, or any other deregulation of executive function.
A lot of times you just need to feel like you belong somewhere so you can trust that people will treat you like another person.
I’d imagine the Venn diagram of mistreated people, people on the spectrum, and Juggalos has a profound overlap.
I treat other people like people by taking a shower before I go to a local game store or other enclosed space where we’re forced to be together for a few hours. I’m sorry for people who struggle with it but I don’t accept ableism arguments for these situations. Are folks literally unable, or just not prioritizing the community when they make decisions? I think it’s the latter.
I mean it seems like people generally agree on this, at least here. That’s interesting. Never met one myself.
I was looking for some images to give a demographic feel, and this name of this article conveys better:
Everything we saw at the 2022 Gathering of the Juggalos before our camera got mucked up with Faygo
They’re not all gross or unclean. They do have a higher representation of poor people who might work a manual labor job or be unemployed, and then walk someplace far away along a busy road to party, crash on the couch, and then walk somewhere else. Just less opportunity to change clothing, do laundry and shower.
Yeah I mean a few way to drunk ppl between that but nothing I would classify as gross
Yeah, the name of the article was the funny bit in this case. The newspaper was obviously not going around taking unflattering pictures.
The latter description fits better with the ones I’ve met. Typically younger, low or no income, predominantly men. Not homeless, but more of a network of houses they crash at randomly.
They’ve got a fair bit of hippie in their cultural DNA and it shows in their relationship with washing
Not just hippie, there’s a lot of crust punk too.
Idk they’re just usually very unhygienic from what I’ve seen.
There should be a scientific study.
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what is a juggalo?
clown people.
Honk honk!
I heard that in Skeeter from the show Doug’s voice
Exactly where my mind went
smells you can see
Everyone dressed as themselves are wearing black. Those who wear color have masks and face paint. I’m no armchair psychologist but that probably means something.
There are afaik basically 2 poles for juggalos that are basically discribed by insane clown posse and twisted insane
Probably that they’re juggalos
Essentially, fans of the rap combo insane clown posse
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Hey, just want to give you a heads up. When you share YouTube links, the ? and anything behind it is tracking info. When you shared that long link it shows me this:
ss of youtube info
I’ve redacted quite a bit and as it’s not tied to your lemmy username I feel compelled to let you, and the world at large, know. When sharing youtube links, delete the ? and everything behind it
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He’ll eat Monopoly and shit out Connect Four
I don’t know/but I’m down with the clown/and I’m down for life yo
I don’t know but I’m down with the clown and I’m down for life yo.
A dead body.
Well, he ain’t really dead
He’s a graduate
This is everything I know about them:
They’re great people, just kinda messy.
The most polite person from ohio describing anyone from Michigan.
Idk Michigan seems less messy than ohio these days
Yeah, but that’s only because of Toledo.
This is Dayton erasure
Dayton is a satellite campus of Toledo. Just like any satellite campus it’s a little cheaper and has a lot more fentanyl.
Oh, you’ve met me
What, they ARE! They believe in family, loyalty, and smelling like Casey Anthony’s car boot. I support it.
Why does that make you laugh out loud?
because im a millennial and lol means “haha”
why do you ask obnoxious questions?
Yea they are pretty cool. Wear an icp shirt and you got yourself a make shift family.
I’ve known some who would steal your Legos.
I hope he updates his views on magnets as well
Fucking rainbows after it rains…
That’s what big magnetite wants you to think
And scientists.
Trump did water. What’s this guy’s deal?
The other thing, that’s even harder to do, is to admit you’re wrong about stuff right now, and you’ll regret it in the future.
It’s easy to look back at your past self and admit that that guy made some bone-headed mistakes. But, the chances are very good that right now you strongly believe some things that will be just as wrong as those other beliefs your past self had.
It’s a learned skill. Once I realise I am wrong about something, admitting that is trivial. Coming to the conclusion you are wrong is also trivial on hard facts based things. But on emotional topics, that’s the real challenge. Admitting “I overreacted, sorry for lashing out”, as a prime example.
No, you don’t understand. I’m not talking about admitting it when you now realize you were wrong in the past.
I’m saying that some of the things you think you’re right about are things you’ll actually regret in the future.
It’s about having humility about even your deeply held beliefs.
I think it’s enough to accept that opininons are not facts & not treat my own opinions as facts. Accordingy, I don’t have deeply held beliefs I can realize to have been wrong about in the future.
Because my deeply held beliefs come down to “Don’t be an asshole”. And I won’t have been wrong about that ;) Everything else is either derived conclusions from that, or opinions that I realise not everyone shares.
Well it’s not like they called themselves The Sane Tragedian Posse.
Or The Whimsical Jester Posse
Would probably make a better president than the shit we have now.
I will never get over in early Covid when the governments and militaries of the world were sitting around with their thumbs in their asses, unsure what to do.
Meanwhile, ICP straight up canceled the Gathering of the Juggalos. They lost a bunch of money in the process, and said, “We refuse to risk even one Juggalo life.” I don’t really care for their music, but it gave me a huge amount of respect for them.
Like seriously. Why were the guys who rap about murdering people providing better pandemic leadership than the entire government?
I still think their magnets song was a harbinger of the coming times. While the song itself is full of anti-intellectualism, there’s a specific line calling scientists liars.
I didn’t think they even needed to explain themselves, I mean they were literally clowns. I can’t see what more they could have done to flag up that you weren’t supposed to take that shit seriously
Whoop whoop
I’m always surprise by how difficult it seems for people to admit they made mistakes. I’m not perfect but I think that at least I have the capacity to say I’m sorry and be sincere when I mess up. I’ve been in quite a few relationships in my life and not many of my partners ever admitted doing something wrong, even when it was clearly the case and I believe they were realising it.
