• SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world
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    3 days ago

    What is this obsession some people have with ivermectin? They don’t believe in the moon landings but they think ivermectin has magic powers.

  • CheeryLBottom@lemmy.world
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    3 days ago

    When did ivermectin become the cure all? COVID? Because this is beyond stupid.

    I know it started with COVID, but to become a wonder drug…

    • Alue42@fedia.io
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      3 days ago

      In the beginning of Covid, a doctor in very rural India started treating Covid patients with ivermectin and they got better. So the doctor wrote a paper about it, and this paper was touted as proof that ivermectin was the cure for Covid, and nowadays everything.

      Because schools don’t stress science literacy, what people didn’t notice in the paper was that WHY ivermectin helped these patients with their Covid infections is because they ALSO had multiple parasites because they were living in a very rural area and rarely sought medical help, and therefore their immune system was already overburdened dealing with the parasites. By treating the parasites with ivermectin, their immune systems were able to focus on Covid and actually fight through it. This was all explained in the paper, people just didn’t read past the title, clearly.

      Ivermectin is prescribed for humans - specifically in the cases of parasites. We need to get back to teaching science literacy and critical thinking in schools.

    • SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      I swear, if somehow dog turds got a “fight the man” aura about them there’d be people claiming dog turds cure everything.

    • Snowclone@lemmy.world
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      Scam artists can sell it without a prescription as long as they’re calling it an animal product. It’s sold off the counter at any feed store. This is always the scam with these claims it’s ‘‘it cures cancer THEY just don’t want you to know about it!’’ Then they sell you a huge amount of it at a huge markup. This is everything from Monavie (an aqci berry juice), vitamin Mega doses, some completely insignificant ‘‘supplements’’ (I knew a guy selling ox bile capsules with almost no oil or extracts mixed in), then you have all manner of crystals, jade eggs, food processing leftovers like apricot pits, inert nonsense. And I’m not even really mad about it because it mostly ripps off rich idiots like Mel and Joe. These idiots take the same meds from their doctor as everyone else, then ALSO take the snake oil and are convinced the snake oil worked. Joe took a vit C mega dose when he was also taking meds from his doctor for Covid, and he’s SURE the Vit C did something. It’s like how if you have really worn out tires on a car that when you get new tires the mileage gets noticeably better, but then you think ‘‘tire store change tire = 20% lower mph’’ so you take your car back the next day and ask them to change the tires 4 more times because you think it will make your car have -100% gas consuption. All these meds CAN improve your immune system response by removing parasites if you have them, eliminate vit deficiencys if you have them, or remove other micro nutrient deficiencies, all work IF you have the issue to begin with, and studies show the improvement, but taking 1000x the dose of Vit C is just making your pee insanely vit rich, once the deficiency is resolved your body dumps the excess.

      • spireghost@lemmy.zip
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        3 days ago

        it mostly ripps off rich idiots like Mel and Joe

        Not at all. People who can barley afford their medications see these as cheaper alternatives and will often use these instead.

    • ours@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      But they’ll kick and scream and run away from the actual medical miracle with a medically tested and proven vaccine.

      • futatorius@lemm.ee
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        2 days ago

        I think they’re just nostalgic for polio and widespread TB. Maybe cholera too.

        • ours@lemmy.world
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          2 days ago

          The good old days of having kids and just knowing chances are stacked against most of them making it past toddler age.

  • charade_you_are@sh.itjust.works
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    4 days ago

    Sorry to the people dealing with the fires in LA area but I have to admit that I laughed hard when I heard Mel Gibson’s house burnt down during this interview. Absolutely hilarious to me.

    • Victor@lemmy.world
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      I dunno how the hell I could tell from back in the day, watching movies he was in, that I couldn’t trust him. Just something about the way he acts. I can’t put my finger on it.

        • Victor@lemmy.world
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          20 hours ago

          I haven’t in decades, but maybe I’d understand if I did nowadays.

          I’m not talking about the characters he plays though. Just the way he carries himself and how he looks at women and shit. Like, it’s just giving “brother, eww”. Can’t fully put my finger on it.

      • ours@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        There were hints. Dude played Mad Max and the loose-cannon crazy cop in Lethal Weapon. Is it acting or maybe he was born with it?

        • Victor@lemmy.world
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          3 days ago

          And interactions with women, just… He seemed like a scoffer. Scoffing at women. You know? I don’t respect scoffers who scoff unnecessarily.

  • SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world
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    3 days ago

    Steve Jobs, an otherwise very intelligent and successful guy, got diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and instead of jumping right on treating it instead let it go and sought out all sorts of “natural” cures. Well it became terminal and he admitted that if he had treated it at the start it was in an early enough stage where he likely would’ve survived. There is a trait in some smart people to think they are experts on everything.

  • smokebuddy [he/him]@lemmy.today
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    4 days ago

    obligatory fuck daily mail but this screen was posted to a discord I’m in and I laughed then, I’ll laugh again now

  • FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world
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    4 days ago

    I wish I knew how to get these motherfuckers to care about anything as much as they care about ivermectin.

  • chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world
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    There were so many calls to “Let Mel come back,” promising that his outbursts weren’t a real problem anymore and he was on the way to recovery. Nope. Don’t believe that shit. Second chances are dead now, thanks to cunts like him and these other fucks that have squandered the goodwill of the people. Gibson isn’t done doing harm. He will be a piece of shit until he dies, which can’t come soon enough. Fuck him and the entire tribe of fuckwads that spout the same and similar nonsense. They are a blight on humanity.

  • RobotToaster@mander.xyz
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    4 days ago

    I’m not defending idiots saying it cures cancer, but people dismissively calling ivermectin a “horse dewormer” when it’s approved for human use for all sorts of parasitic diseases is something that grinds my gears. It actually is something of a wonder drug, just not for what these idiots keep claiming.

    Methylene blue is an approved drug too, (the first synthetic drug, coincidentally) it’s used for cyanide poisoning amongst other things. It’s also a MAOI, which makes it dangerous to take with a bunch of common medicines.

    • 𝙲𝚑𝚊𝚒𝚛𝚖𝚊𝚗 𝙼𝚎𝚘𝚠@programming.dev
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      4 days ago

      The horse dewormer thing iirc comes from the fact that ivermectin is a prescription drug, and doctors obviously wouldn’t prescribe it for covid. So people resorted to one of the very few ways you could still purchase it: as the horse dewormer variant.

      Of course this version is much stronger and intended for horses, not humans. IIRC this led to a few hospitalisations and even deaths.

      That’s why when people advocate you should take ivermectin, the counter claim is that they’re telling you to take horse dewormer, since that’s the only way to get it. It’s not out of a general ‘disrespect’ for ivermectin.

      • futatorius@lemm.ee
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        2 days ago

        Are ivermectin’s feelings hurt when it’s disrespected? Or does it kind of get off on it? And why are all these people posting at great length to remind us all that it has some other use than the one we are talking about?

    • SlopppyEngineer@lemmy.world
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      4 days ago

      It actually is something of a wonder drug

      And it worked wonders on COVID patients who actually had parasites in the “throw everything at the wall” period. Word got out some patients had improved because of it. It became a whole thing because doctors didn’t got the same results with ivermectin in others trials, probably because their patients didn’t have parasites, and ruled it out as the COVID cure. Arm chair viral experts refused to believe it and made it a conspiracy, and from there on became a cornerstone of anti vax and right wing politics. Of course right wing commentators now make it the cure for cancer.

    • socsa@piefed.social
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      4 days ago

      People are literally buying it from Tractor Supply when doctors won’t prescribe it. That’s why people say horse dewormer. It is literally horse dewormer they are taking.

      • spireghost@lemmy.zip
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        Sure, but still a false equivalence and a strawman at best. The few people who bought horse dewormer to get ivermectin doesn’t discredit those who “smartly” bought the correct human dose for ivermectin.

        When most conversation is asynchronous, it usually turns out:

        [Ivermectin Mentioned]

        “That’s horse dewormer.”

        [Person internally: No it’s not, it’s a real drug. Scrolls past your conversation thinking ‘this person doesn’t know what they’re talking about’]

        Both people then go away having learned nothing.

    • spamfajitas@lemmy.world
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      4 days ago

      The fun fact about Methylene Blue that always is a hit with students is it also turns your pee a green/blue-green color.

      • mPony@lemmy.world
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        4 days ago

        in this corner, the challenger, using a B vitamin complex.
        And our returning champion, Methylene Blue!

        ^DING!!^

        • futatorius@lemm.ee
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          2 days ago

          And taking it along with various psychedelic drugs can extend the trip, often far beyond what any sane person would want. MAOIs inhibit one of the pathways the body uses to clear those drugs from the bloodstream. Instead, they hang around.

    • Phen@lemmy.eco.br
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      4 days ago

      Yes, but invermectin is also a very strong drug and even for its intended uses, it’s rarely recommended to take it more than twice in a year. During covid days, people were taking it weekly.

        • Krauerking@lemy.lol
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          4 days ago

          My boss and the secretary were squeezing it into their applesauce every day.

          The secretary was the same person who complained the doctors caught her trying to sneak it into her mom’s hospital room and was trying to squeeze some in her mouth while intubated and said she needed to get her mom out of there to got a real Jewish hospital that would let her do it and cure her mom.

          Both sad and funny stupid.

          My boss would end up packing his entire family and their stuff from their house that would fit into his F150 truck and flee Florida to Texas for “More Freedom™”

            • Krauerking@lemy.lol
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              2 days ago

              Nope. Just didn’t like how Florida was handling COVID and the future of education for his kids if I remember correctly.

    • ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works
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      4 days ago

      I personally know/knew one of the main guys promoting Ivermectin in the news and on rogan. It was 100% a grift and he knew it. The point wasn’t the medicine but subverting public health efforts. That is why it is derided as horse dewormer.

      • futatorius@lemm.ee
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        2 days ago

        Also it’ll burn the lining of your bladder and make you piss blood. And dissociatives including ket are nasty, dirty drugs that cause lots of mishaps when used in non-clinical settings.

    • madcaesar@lemmy.world
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      4 days ago

      This should be the top comment. Most conspiracy bullshit always has some grain of truth, so when you dismiss it with factually wrong information you just solidify the conspiracy mindset, since you “don’t get it”.

      The best way to fight conspiracy theories is to engage them head on and make them prove the claim. They’ll try and miserably fail IE flat earth.

    • feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world
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      Yes it led to the first TB treatments or something didn’t it? I completely can’t remember, does it also have a link to the development of antidepressants? Somebody help me out, my undergraduate degree was a long time ago now.

      Edit: oh yeah, it’s a MAOI, you literally wrote that in your post.

    • TheDannysaur@lemmy.world
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      4 days ago

      Thank you for this. I hate all the caveating you have to do on the internet, but this taught me something I didn’t know and now I’m slightly less of an idiot :)

    • VeganPizza69 Ⓥ@lemmy.world
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      It’s because they buy the veterinary products as a way to circumvent existing reasonable limits for human use of ivermectin. It’s implicitly against doctors’ recommendations and prescriptions.

      Alternatively, they’re buying ego-boosting pills/pastes that feed the fantasy that they’re special/chosen people who are in the know about “secrets hiding in plain sight” like a common antiparasitic drug having incredible curative properties.

    • Classy@sh.itjust.works
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      Yes and it treats fungal infections in tree frogs. I’m not trying to say that these medicines work the way that Gibson is saying they do, but the whole “horse dewormer” talking point is dishonest as it makes it out like these medicines have only a single use. I doubt ivermectin treats covid or whatever. But anytime someone just throws out these minimizing points as if it’s impossible to use things in more than one way only makes me doubt the validity of their claims.

      • futatorius@lemm.ee
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        Having more than one use is irrelevant as to whether it is efficacious and safe in a specific other use.

        I doubt ivermectin treats covid or whatever.

        It doesn’t, any more than hitting your patella with a lug wrench treats covid.

  • Phoenixz@lemmy.ca
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    4 days ago

    Joe Rogan is very much part of the misinformation media, he continuously gets guests talking crazy shit and he always nods along, yeah yeah, and people form some stupid reason just lap it up

    Can we, for the love of fuck, put laws in placenthst require that as soon as a group of a certain size (say 50+) listens to you, that you are responsible for what you’re saying and that you’re required to ensure that your information is scientifically correct?

    I’m sorry, but fuck free speech as so many people are raving about. Its the worst thing that has happened to the world since the Internet came on. All idiots now have a loud voice and the vast majority of humans apparently are very poorly equipped to weed out this bullshit.

    No, your “pyramid curing cancer theory being blocked by big pharma” is NOT real, does NOT have a right to be heard, and is NOT a positive for humanity.

    Yes, yes, we should be able to say what we want (within reason) but once you’d tart getting a following, that’s it. No more, PLEASE. YOU HAVE YO START BEING TRUTHFUL AND FACTUAL. Why do we continue to allow people to lie their asses off to groups to manipulate others? Hell, even US presidents do this in insane amounts. Even Obama lied at least a little in like 25% of is statements? And he was a low outlier. Trump lies about 90% of the time at pants on fire levels and we’re all fine with it. First amendment rules ftw!

    Trump would never have been in power if we had something like this. Medical quackery would be gone as Dr Oz can no longer sell his snake oil bullshit. Churches would be gone, yikes… Imagine marketing if companies were required to be actually truthful about their products?

    News organizations!

    OMFG. So Fox news sues the US government to not be held to standards requiring them to be factual because first amendment… So quite literally everything coming from them today is a lie. Its all bullshit. Why do we allow this and just laught at them? Why does nobody see the danger of just allowing news organizations to lie to the populace to divide the people, to get false ideas in their heads, to fill them with false hatred…

    If Fox news and the likes would have been required to be truthful there would be no trump, the racial divide in the US would have been a whole lot less than it is today. And when I mean truthful I also mean the things they focus on, the insinuations, the pundits with their opinions.

    Why why why, why do we allow any of this? What the fuck, world? The first amendment is not worth ending up in world was three because we MUST allow special interests to lie yo everyone, first amendment!

    Start requiring that companies MUST be truthful. Presidents and governments MUST be truthful in claims to their citizens. Celebrity or someone with a following? You must be truthful in your claims.

    We either start growing up as humanity or this will be our downfall. We are at the edge of the end of humanity as we have known it for centuries due to climate change (and have no doubt, it fucking will end everything we know today) but can’t even have a basic discussion about how to stop or reverse this because special interests are allowed to use their news outlets to just scream that climate change is a hoax.

    We just allow that. The theater is on fire and we can’t even have a discussion on how to escape out because even though the flames are right there, the theater owner keeps screaming over everyone that all is okay, there is no fire, we don’t have to escape.

    Its gotten to the point where no meaningful discussion is possible anymore because we vant even agree about the basic facts in front of us anymore.

    This has got to stop. The lies have to stop, we need basic facts.

    • SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world
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      I’m sorry, but fuck free speech as so many people are raving about. Its the worst thing that has happened to the world since the Internet came on. All idiots now have a loud voice and the vast majority of humans apparently are very poorly equipped to weed out this bullshit.

      Don’t even need the internet, the printing press gave us Malleus Maleficarum which fed the whole witch hunting craze. Then we had the The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a fake book made by Imperial Russia to demonize Jews. People were just as vulnerable to bullshit back then when it meshed with their existing biases.

      • futatorius@lemm.ee
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        2 days ago

        Russian governments of all ideologies have resorted to shitting in the well. It seems a matter of cultural pride to them.

    • BigBananaDealer@lemm.ee
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      how can anyone agree with free speech being the worst thing to happen in the world since the internet. seriously, how can anyone read that and agree?

      the worst thing to happen in the world since the internet…is free speech… please read what you are saying BEFORE submitting a comment. good lord. if there was a lemmy worst of that single line should be pinned to the top

      • futatorius@lemm.ee
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        2 days ago

        Disinformation should not be regarded as protected speech, any more than a fraudulent product claim or a defamatory comment is. Same goes for statements intended to incite stochastic terrorism, or specific and actionable death threats, or foreign propaganda emanating from troll farms.

        Unless you are so stupid as to do nothing but repeat such malicious content, you free speech rights are not infringed by controlling malicious, false, toxic targeted claims such as those. And you are free to moan about it all you like, but it is becoming an existential matter for the preservation of democracy that such content is dealt with decisively. We’re in an information war, and the people originating that bullshit are this generation’s Lord Haw Haw and Tokyo Rose.

    • Woht24@lemmy.world
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      Bruh… That’s some high hopes and a fuck load of effort for something that will never happen. Your suggestions are very much unrealistic.

    • rational_lib@lemmy.world
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      I’m sorry, but fuck free speech as so many people are raving about. Its the worst thing that has happened to the world since the Internet came on.

      I think the mistake isn’t free speech but not having enough exceptions for fraudulent statements. For example, if you say anything false and damaging about a specific person, everyone agrees that’s libel and not “free speech”. But if you say something false and damaging about a group of people, like trans people or immigrants, that’s “free speech” and perfectly legal. Or if you say something false and damaging about fake cures, etc.

      It’s actually a tough problem because we can’t expect everyone to just be perfectly right all the time. But I think that for people like Rogan who have a wide platform, there should be some liability for lying about things that actually harm others. The fact that this is effectively legal is why psychopaths are dominating media narratives right now.

      • Phoenixz@lemmy.ca
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        13 hours ago

        I don’t care about individual expressing their opinions.

        Once you have a following, you have a responsibility to speak the truth. We currently live in a world where fox news can spew incendiary lies 24/7 and noone bats an eye and if ever anyone says anything in court they simply claim to be entertaiment and that no reasonable person would take them seriously.

        What. The. Fuck.

        How is any of that possible, at all?

      • SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        You should be able to question the politics and beliefs about any group though without being shutdown. Since there is no truly public forum online, similar to a physical town commons, you can be banned from privately run sites simply for questioning their dogma with no recourse.

    • Shardikprime@lemmy.world
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      Please let’s do that. Half of Lemmy would go to jail and the other half straight to the death row

    • Doomsider@lemmy.world
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      I think you listed several good points. I believe a government that actually cared about its populace would help to protect people from propaganda. The problem is that this would require a government that was actually just. That is not what we have in the US at least.

      I always think about it simply because it helps weed out what is really going on. Listen, if go to your doctor and they purposely give you bad advice they could be on the hook for it. They have licensing boards, oaths, insurance, and legal regulation to prevent them from saying things like horse dewormer good.

      Why is it when we have influencers, talking heads, and politicians who can do much much more harm than one doctor giving bad advice allowed to operate without oversight, licenses, regulations, and ignore their obligation to society?

      Let’s go back to simplifying this again. You would not tolerate someone in your personal life that lies and decieves you. Now think about people in authority. Would it be okay for your teacher, your coach, or your boss if they lied to you and manipulated you. They would lose their jobs if they did this and others find out.

      We understand because of psychology and human nature that it is very easy to manipulate people and abuse them. That is why we hold the leaders close to us to high standards. Strangely though the more power people accumulate the less we seem to hold them to these standards when in fact we should even be stricter.

      To be frank the reason we are not holding our most powerful people responsible is because they have been allowed to set the narrative. There is very little influence independent media has compared to mainstream media. If mainstream media creates an environment where it is just expected that politicians lie and are corrupt then everyone accepts it.

      This is most definitely a conspiracy. Ever since propaganda became public relations we have seen those in power increasingly abuse their privileges. They have fine tuned the narrative to prevent themselves from being called out for the lies and damage they cause

      They are using the best of psychology and other sciences to manipulate people. Drive their fear and hatred playing them like a marionette doll. We would never allow a partner to abuse us in this way but we allow someone who is way more powerful than a partner do this.

      And make no mistakes these politicians are just like a partner because they are making intimate decisions about your personal life. They are invading our homes telling us what can and can’t do reproductively. They are threatening people’s livelihood. They are pitting Americans against each other for their own ends.

      We need a new constitution that spells out that we will no longer be allowed to use the best of technology and science to manipulate people for selfish ends. We need rights to privacy, safety, and accountability. Until we grow up and stop allowing ourselves to be abused things will not improve.

      The government must be designed to resist corruption not embrace it. Our current system is beyond broken with its winner take all two party nonsense. This binary choice is not a choice at all. You could never account for the diversity of thought and opinion with a choice between only two entities.

      All of this is by design of course as the US was founded by the rich for the rich. I don’t know about you, but this is unacceptable. We have a cancer destroying our society and mainstream media pretends it does not exist because they part of that cancer.

      We have lost the proverbial battle so far in the 21st century, but that does not mean we can’t demand change. The war for our future is not over yet. Don’t let people fool you either. Change can and does happen and until we demand it we will continue down this path of lies and deception.

      • futatorius@lemm.ee
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        2 days ago

        That seems like a boiling-the-ocean solution, comprehensively replacing the government with a new, better (and unproven) one.

        What can be done that’s actionable incrementally, starting right now?

        • Doomsider@lemmy.world
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          2 days ago

          It is great you are thinking of what you can do. The first is to talk about it with others. You need to find people who are interested in making a change. While you can latch on to any number of solutions to tackle the problems we face it is best to come up with your own solutions with like minded people.

          One thing people have been trying to do is implement ranked voting. Although we would still be stuck with our two-party system, ranked voting prevents the conundrum of losing your vote if you vote third party. This also prevents other parties from helping out spoiler candidates and using them to continue winning elections even though it is clear people want change.

          There has been a bit of backlash against ranked voting with some representatives even passing amendments to prevent ranked voting at the state level. A common criticism of ranked voting is it is confusing for voters. The real reason ranked voting is discouraged though is it upsets the existing power dynamic and would allow more independent or third party candidates.

          You can also get involved with local politics. I would highly suggest paying attention to city/county elections. You could run for office yourself or find someone you like to campaign for.

          Don’t be afraid to meet with your state or federal representatives either. I went down to the capitol and lobbied for gay marriage personally with my wife. We met with the news and talked with a lot of people on steps besides just the representatives. We ultimately passed this in our state before it happened on the federal level.

          In my personal opinion, on the federal level, our biggest issue is privacy. It is time to write our Senate and Congress reps about this and tell everyone you know how important it is we have laws to protect us in this digital age.

          Some of the other big issues that need to be tackled is unequal representation in Congress. For instance the county of LA has as much population as 40 US states but California does not get the reps they should in Congress.

          We of course also need to get money completely out of politics. No one who is representing us should be allowed conflicts of interests. This means they should not be purchasing stocks or investing while they have privileged knowledge. They should not be running businesses and the revolving door between public office and private companies needs to be closed.

          Money should not equal speech because if it does then those without money will not get equal representation. No more billion dollars campaigns and all political messaging should be tightly controlled. Candidates should only be able to sell their messages with their policies and should be held accountable to these policies.

          I strongly feel politicians should be held to much higher standards. They should have a board, should pass tests, and should be licensed. All ethics should be codified into actual laws as we have seen relying on politicians to be honorable is foolish.

          At any rate, there is a few things you could do.

    • ipkpjersi@lemmy.ml
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      4 days ago

      and people form some stupid reason just lap it up

      Stupid people love being stupid. Ignorance is bliss, after all.

      • futatorius@lemm.ee
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        2 days ago

        The ignoramuses I encounter seem more angry or depressed than they are blissful.