Summary
Trump and Zelenskyy’s confrontational Oval Office meeting advanced “mob boss foreign policy” serving Russian interests.
Trump and Vance bullied Zelenskyy when he refused their “extortionate” minerals deal or to thank them despite Trump’s stated intent to reduce support for Ukraine.
Zelenskyy effectively countered their claims by noting Russia’s 2014 invasion and correcting historical inaccuracies, which angered the Americans.
This represents the first openly “anti-US, anti-Western, anti-democracy foreign policy in American history.” Russians embraced it, and Putin ally and former Russian president Dmitry Medvedev celebrated the exchange.
The idea that Zelensky should owe the US anything is darkly hilarious. The US has been using this war to further its own geopolitical aims, without regard for Ukrainian lives. “Pay us back for the privilege of being a sacrificial pawn of US foreign policy”. Gross.
To add to that: Even from a purely military perspective, the intelligence gain regarding modern tactics far offsets what the US paid for it
Trump is a vulgar minded criminal who only thinks in terms of money and cash.
There is so much in this direction. For a fraction of the budget, you could obliterate both the Russian army and economy, without losing any soldiers. What an opportunity, what a deal. Unless you’re owned by Russia, of course.
He did something much worst then humiliating x or y. Everyone already knew he is a clown, but he pretty much blown any credibility USA still had as a partner for anything, see also tariffs and threatening 2 allies (Canada and Greenland)
This is Don Corleone beheivior, I give you 100 billions in old military equipment and you give me 500 back, really?
Also, USA offered security guarantees on '90s when Ukraine gave back the nukes to Russia. Officials didn’t forget that, maybe Trump did.
Trump would say that the deal was done under incompetent old management and it is not valid under him. As if the government is now his and not the old.
Ok, then his validation as president was done by the same incompetent old management and it’s not valid.
He can say what he wants. International treaties are international treaties. If you break them you loose your credibility, if you still have any after threating to invade your allies.
America humiliated itself by voting this orange twat back in
We tried not to, I promise you. Our voting system is …problematical, at best
So is social media, and the openness of free societies to internal (the rich owning the media) and external (foreign adversaries) tampering. Spreading misinformation, eroding trust in institutions and truth itself, poisons like that.
Many democracies are crumbling this way. We yet have to find an effective antidote.
Regardless of the voting system, there still is a worryingly large portion of voters who were corrupted to serve other’s interests. And that is true to all (?) countries. That not just any two democracies fall first, but GB and US, kind of shows us that it could be anyone.
So while it is easy to look down on the fallen, or feel ashamed to be that - we’re helpless in this together. Hate to end like that.
Illusion of choice
half the voting population thinks trump did humiliate zelensky
at this point, the rest of the world should start phasing out and blocking anything American. can’t rely on the looney bin for critical infrastructure.
Føtex in Denmark is to start marking American products, so now it’s easier to know if you’re buying something American or something European.
I think Canada is also going to make a few trade deals with us.
100% knew this shit would happen. Knew he was going to take this all as some massive win. His cronies probably all patted him on the back and gladly licked his nuts.
The U.S. citizens bought the ticket now it’s time to take the ride.
I’d like a refund please, I didn’t agree to this.
The united states is a clown of a country for three decades.
The most embarrassing moment in American history. Regurgitating Russian propaganda to the ally currently under attack from Russia. It’s almost unbelievable that this actually occurred…
I don’t think Ukraine is an ally anymore. I don’t think much of Europe is our ally at this point
I’m certainly not an ally, and I live here.
I mean, same. I hate that I’m an American rn.
Good thing we have the 1st and 2nd Amendments.
Perhaps useful idiots on the left should stop trying to take them away.
This administration and the greater right wing is the most virulent opponent of the first amendment this country has ever seen, and its not even remotely close.
How so?
most embarrassing moment in American history
so far.
Its wild how much damage is being done in such a short time and how powerless everyone is to do anything.
That’s the real kicker, everyone is not powerless. On the contrary, as a matter of fact, everyone is powerful. America could change tomorrow if Americans wanted it bad enough.
People feel powerless because the country is split. They can’t change tomorrow became that would require onboarding 150m people and convincing them to standup to a tyrannical regime.
So it doesn’t matter how bad people on the left want it they can’t change anything. There is the option of revolution but you only get one shot at that and the Feds will see it being organised from a mile away.
Almost. But some of us could tell he was a Manchurian Candidate
Most embarrassing, wtf, have you read american history past the first grade. Hell in the first chapter you’ll find ethnic cleansing of natives and the three fifths compromise. This isn’t even the first time we’ve done a shakedown like this. Half of Latin America got this treatment in the 19th century, albeit less crude and poorly executed.
Even on the regurgitating authoritarian propaganda front, in the 70s we were running diplomatic cover for fucking Polpot and playing down the genocide because we wanted to get back at Vietnam and cozy up to China.
Those were all closed door dealings that boomers children could’ve only learned from hindsight. This was a public display of WTFery that rewrites the last century of geopolitical history, something like this hasn’t happened since… Oh god.
More embarrassing than Holocaust denial and the slaughter of indigenous people?
There’s lots of embarrassing things. There’s lots of really bad embarrassing things.
I hear the French had a most fabulous invention that could help with these sorts of problems.
The Etch-A-Sketch?
You could draw it on an etch-a-sketch.
But not quite as embarrassing as your comment history.
Dunning Kruger indeed
Has Trump done anything in the past month to not humiliate the US and drastically weaken our global strength and influence?
Some drone strikes on some Al Qaeda guys I guess? But nothing of significant note. The rest has been a complete humiliation of the US.
The same drone strikes he said were illegal, and instead of stopping, removed reporting of so he could say he didn’t do it but Obama did… ugghhhh
You know there’s something wrong when Putin and his cronies are the only ones applauding you.
You know there’s something wrong when Putin and his cronies are the only ones applauding you.
did you know there are BYD chinese cars sold all over europe.
if they are US allies - how does that happen?What a moronic thing for Trump to have said when nearly everything anyone in the United States buys/uses comes from China.
Not cars tho.
What does this have to do with what I said
That was their goal. Humiliate Ukraine like he tried to humiliate Canada and Mexico. He’s a bully and conman and lying, cheating, and breaking deals is how he has gotten through life and it’s all he knows. He thinks that by humiliating and making other leaders feel small and helpless he can make himself look big and strong and get a better deal.
He hasn’t figured out yet that dealing with sovereign countries with millions of citizens whose politicians need to answer to them, not Trump, is different that cheating a small paint store or a small architecture firm.
He’s bankrupted everything he’s tried to, the-art-of-the-deal and he’s going to bankrupt America.
If the world works together it can bring the United States to heel.
He tries to run diplomatic relations like he would be dealing with NYC mobsters. That man is entirely unsuited for office. The US population which elected him has shown to be unsuited for the leadership role they claim their country has. That’s the reality the rest of the world is facing. The US is a troubled state and an unreliable ally. Moreover, they are acting in the interests of adversarial nations to world peace and prosperity. Other nations who did that have been deemed rogue or terrorist states.
Humiliate Ukraine like he tried to humiliate Canada and Mexico.
Trump’s tariffs are about to come into effect against Canadian goods in a couple days. I fully expect to see another meltdown from Trump. I really hope Trudeau records the entire meeting/phone call and makes it public so the whole world can witness it.
I am sad that due to the sheer mass of stupid new shit trump is pulling the impending implosion of north American trade (and therefor economy) is getting very little coverage (even Canadian news at the moment is covering other things).
Most embarrassed I’ve been to call myself an american. And I’m a veteran.
Absolutely disgusting.
I’m so angry and embarrassed. What a total shit show.
Since 2015 ish I started unfollowing both left and right side friends because of political talk from people on my friends list on Facebook. I really have pruned it to be only people that post stuff they’re doing. Same for people that only forward stuff. (News or whatever).
I broke down and posted about yesterday on my feed with a link to a YouTube video of the press conference. Expressing how utterly disgusted I was.
It’s a minor thing but it should make it very clear how I feel and the line we crossed with that display.
Seems like you did an unnecessary pruning then. You just weren’t angry yet.
No I was angry but wanted a clean online space that I was kinda stuck on due to remote family…
Edit: I am more angry now so you’re not technically wrong <sigh>
I have followed a lot. I’m passionate too. However, this. This was just too much. It’s upsetting and disgusting and embarrassing for us. I really wish Obama and Biden and Clinton and everyone would be more fucking vocal. They do it for silent respect? There is nothing respectful about anything Trump has done. We need real leaders.
I was pretty embarrassed when he was elected the first time, then really embarrassed when he was elected the second time too, but yeah, this is a new low.
Embarrassed? I went into a deep depression and could barely get out of bed, the second time.
Sorry to hear, that’s terrible and understandable. The country is definitely in a bad place right now and hopefully the safeguards that haven’t already been dismantled will hold and he can’t do too much damage.
I kind of did too. But then I realized there’s still a chance to turn things around so I started getting involved with local activist chapters. Do what you can and try to get your family involved. It all helps.
I voted by mail went to Hawaii hoping to tune it out. All it did was depress the fuck out of me during my vacation. I put on a fake smile and tried to enjoy myself, but the 2nd half of that trip sucked.
Yea, me too. That was a sense of doom on another level.
I’m a veteran and a minority as well. It’s great knowing more than 1 language because I can claim a different country that speaks my language as my own to avoid the negative association of being an American.
I also get discounts speaking my native tongue compared to white folks who come blaring in disrespectfully.
Who said there were no “perks” being a minority in the United States <sigh>
This should have been over the second he mocked that disabled reporter, the fact that it didn’t says more about America as a country than the fact that it was allowed to get HERE.
Reality is that every other country will look down on USA for years. USA is not going to be considered trustworthy trading partner nor trustworthy ally.
And the sad part is that even if we can get our act together and pull put of this, our former allies would be justified in not getting too close, because we’ve demonstrated that we could just allow the morons back in at the next election to burn it all down again.
The US always had terribly low resilience in the way their government is structured. The “checks and balances” were pretty great in the late 18th century, but their protections are paper thin and assume good faith.
Several countries have iterated upon their constitutions in the last 300 years, often to close exactly the kind of vulnerabilities we can see exploited in the US right now. For example, because of what the Weimar republic’s article 48 was used for in 1933, the German president no longer has those powers.
I understand that the US constitutions had had amendments, but as far as I can tell, the fundamental flaws across several core institutions have never been addressed. Until they are, the US can not be a trustworthy partner for any endeavor longer than the next election cycle.
I understand that the US constitutions had had amendments, but as far as I can tell, the fundamental flaws across several core institutions have never been addressed. Until they are, the US can not be a trustworthy partner for any endeavor longer than the next election cycle.
Ah, that gets to a different part of our problem: our Conservatives’ fetish for our founders. A majority of our Supreme Court literally uses “What would George Washington think of all this” as justification for rulings. It is very hard (on purpose) to get amendments passed, they need broad consensus not only at the Federal level, but at the State level. That will be impossible to get when half the country uses “what did the founders think” as the benchmark for all rulings. It makes it impossible to update anything.
It’s frankly a much healthier strategy for our (former) allies. We’re really not all that dependable anymore. We’ve been coasting on inertia for decades.
No, I wouldn’t say that. Prior Republican administrations certainly pushed the Unitary Executive theory, but only at some boundaries and worked within the bounds set by Congress and the Courts for most things. Even the first Trump administration was constrained, not only by Congress but also by the administrators that Republicans encouraged him to bring in board, who continued to respect those boundaries.
The unique thing about this Presidency is that Trump is upending all of it. Republicans have long fantasized about demolishing the parts of the Federal government they don’t like. Now they own all the levers of government and could do it all through legislation. But they won’t, because they understand aspects of it will be unpopular and don’t want those votes on the record. So instead, Congress is letting Trump and Musk grab them by the pussy. Republicans get to make the government so small they can drown it in the bathtub, like they always wanted, much faster than the legal process would allow for. All they have to do is look the other way while Trump and Musk trample all over the laws.
So yes, this is different. Our former allies would be correct to not trust us again unless we can place real constraints around the Presidency again, somehow. Depending on Congress to be a check on a President no longer works.
Cope.
Ya’ll’ve been skirting the line for a long time. Most people only get along with the US because they feel like have to, or because they aren’t paying attention to what happens when you get on their bad side for doing things like trying to develop democracy(Latin America, anyone?). Your country was already in the hole but we still had you tied to a rope and were desperately propping you up because you have the keys to van. Now you’ve called everyone losers and cut the rope and, frankly, we’re starting to realize that our efforts would be better spent walking home that trying to fish you out of there while being fought the whole time just for you to drive us all off a cliff an hoir later.
Fuck the US. Fucking shithole.
While some of the critiques you’re leveling are completely valid and correct, I don’t think making a sweeping hostile generalization about all Americans is helpful here.
Also you’re coming off like an asshole. I want to help. The person you’re replying to probably wants to help too. Don’t punch down on that
This person I’m replying to believes that if the world just waits it out that American can be a shining beacon of hope with just a few changes. That is not the case, and the people of the US need to understand that the rest of the world does not believe them to be the main characters the same way they do.
Even many well-meaning in the US are taught a history that paints them as heroes and downplays the efforts of others. Many believe they won WW2, after joing exceptionally late and only because they themselves were attacked. It is a selfish nation, and I do not care(in this instance) about the good people who live there if the country and all it’s might are used to destroy the lives of others.
I have good friends who are from the US and there are many strangers to me from there who equally don’t deserve the consequences of what’s happening. I am still avoiding buying from there, and as Trump said himself that step one of trying to take over Canada would be to attempt to cripple us economically right before enacting tariffs meant specifically to cripple us economically I consider the US an enemy state actively trying to wage war against us.
Do not tell me to be so kind and gentle to someone who thinks that in four years, if they even manage to elect one of their lukewarm centre-right Democrats back into office, that I should breathe a great sigh of relief and pretend everything is back to normal. The US, as a country, is a terrible place filled with all manner of cruel monsters.
And yes, many good individuals, too.
Not that poster, but it’s really easy to be an ass in these discussions because it’s normally filled with liberal middle class Americans who have a unique set of blinders and hopes that can get frustrating .
And I say this as a middle class American more deluded than most
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Yeah I’m actually slightly annoyed that while the first presidency we haven’t cooled that much and prepared ourselves to be less dependent on the US.
But I think now it’s pretty clear, "Trump"s USA is not something we (as europeans) can rely on anymore. Repeating the error twice should be more than enough to come to that conclusion, it was blatantly obvious that something like this could happen (seemingly not for a lot of americans, it’s almost comical to see something like “LeopardsAteMyFace”). Though I’m still a little bit surprised at what speed Trumps administration is able to disassemble the US…
Though I’m still a little bit surprised at what speed Trumps administration is able to disassemble the US…
I’m not. I keep reminding people that “dismantling the administrative state” has been a priority for our Conservatives for quite a while now. What makes this different, though, is that they are choosing to do it quickly and illegally even though they have the votes to do it the regular way. That is what makes this different. They are sending the message, on purpose, that laws dont matter anymore, across the whole thing. Prior administrations might have skirted legal boundaries from time to time, but not on all fronts like this one has.
So it’s not that Europe can’t rely on Trump’s USA. It’s that Europe can’t rely on the American government respecting its own laws. And even if they throw this lot out in 4 years, it can all come back if we don’t get out shit together as a country. That will be impossible to do while Trump is still around. I fear. Even if he can’t manage to get past the 2-term limit every Republican will be subservient to him until God exercises His Ultimate Recall Vote.
It’s hard for me to ignore the fact that what you said is 100% something Putin wants. Trump could not be doing a better job of tearing apart the United States and its standing in the world.
The only way the US recovers from that is with a new constitution with actual dictatorship preventive measures in place.
Really curious what this means for Taiwan. Their sovereignty depends on US support, but with Trump at the helm, we’re just as likely to cut a deal with Xi and stay home when the fighting starts.
It means nothing for Taiwan, the US has supported the One China policy regarding Taiwan for decades and still do.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_US_arms_sales_to_Taiwan
The US has been arming Taiwan for decades. Why would that be necessary if the US considered Taiwan to be part of China? You’re confusing diplomacy for policy.
Maybe you can tell us why China hasn’t gone ahead and invaded Taiwan yet, if the US has supported the One China policy for decades?
China, the US, and Taiwan view Taiwan as belonging to China as per the One China doctrine.
When the United States moved to recognize the People’s Republic of China (PRC) and de-recognize the Republic of China (ROC) in 1979, the United States stated that the government of the People’s Republic of China was “the sole legal Government of China.” Sole, meaning the PRC was and is the only China, with no consideration of the ROC as a separate sovereign entity.
The United States did not, however, give in to Chinese demands that it recognize Chinese sovereignty over Taiwan (which is the name preferred by the United States since it opted to de-recognize the ROC). Instead, Washington acknowledged the Chinese position that Taiwan was part of China. For geopolitical reasons, both the United States and the PRC were willing to go forward with diplomatic recognition despite their differences on this matter. When China attempted to change the Chinese text from the original acknowledge to recognize, Deputy Secretary of State Warren Christopher told a Senate hearing questioner, “[W]e regard the English text as being the binding text. We regard the word ‘acknowledge’ as being the word that is determinative for the U.S.” In the August 17, 1982, U.S.-China Communique, the United States went one step further, stating that it had no intention of pursuing a policy of “two Chinas” or “one China, one Taiwan.”
To this day, the U.S. “one China” position stands: the United States recognizes the PRC as the sole legal government of China but only acknowledges the Chinese position that Taiwan is part of China. Thus, the United States maintains formal relations with the PRC and has unofficial relations with Taiwan. The “one China” policy has subsequently been reaffirmed by every new incoming U.S. administration. The existence of this understanding has enabled the preservation of stability in the Taiwan Strait, allowing both Taiwan and mainland China to pursue their extraordinary political and socioeconomic transitions in relative peace.
As is confirmed in your first link, the USA acknowledges that the Chinese position is that Taiwan is a part of China, and recognise that the PRC is the government of China, they deliberately do not say if they consider Taiwan a part of China or not.
You should read up on the policy of strategic ambiguity with regards to China.
Generally speaking it’s a “speak softly but carry a big stick” approach. “One China” policy is speaking softly. Sailing warships through the Taiwan Strait is brandishing the big stick. That tells China the reality of the situation… One China means Taiwan is de jure part of China, but is de facto an independent country. Why would China invade Taiwan if it’s already part of China? Such a thing wouldn’t make sense!
But if China were to invade Taiwan they would be an explicit action that indicates Taiwan is not already part of it. There would be no more One China policy because China ended it through their actions.
When Biden was President he made a typical Biden gaff when he was saying things that didn’t conform to the One China policy. Whoopsie! Didn’t mean that… seriously, the One China policy is still going strong *wink*. Was that just a typical Biden gaff, or was that him saying the real policy on Taiwan? We can’t know for sure, but China got the message. That’s strategic ambiguity.
Needless to say Donald Trump has no understanding of the nuance of strategic ambiguity. In fact he’s more worried about not upsetting his good friend Xi.
Username does not compute.
Did you think you were being clever?
Did you?
People waking up the reality of what the USA actually is.
