without showing a warrant
I’m so tired of the legalist caveat, implying a Trump judge rubber stamping warrants for these gestapo shits would have made kidnapping and torturing a woman and her infant child acceptable.
But it does highlight that any random brute could put on a mask and do this with no authorization whatsoever. It’s a fundamental human-rights and rule-of-law breakdown to fail to present a warrant. I agree that a warrant doesn’t ethically make the arrests anything short of monstrous, though. That kind of legalist can suck eggs.
But it does highlight that any random brute could put on a mask and do this with no authorization whatsoever
I believe this a part of the plan.
We also need to stop using the word “arrest” when it comes to ICE. As you said, these are kidnappings.
The war for ethics has been lost decades ago. Legality is fickle and often unjust but it’s all that people have at this point.
It isn’t. The modern law is a fig leaf over naked plutocracy and apartheid.
It’s what we have in the same way a knife in your back is something you have
And yet people would rather hold on to a terrible status quo than risk it. Especially in times of desperation, and as long as they’re aware things could be worse (for them personally).
It’s the big catch-22 of modern civics and political engagement. Terrible conditions make many people look towards the systems and rulers that bring about those terrible conditions.
The woman’s teen daughter was left holding the woman’s baby and stood in front of the car in an apparent attempt to stop it. After handing the child to another person, she allegedly kicked the car—and was also reportedly arrested on four charges, including child endangerment. Police have not disclosed what happened to the baby afterward.
fuck you
Yeah, police have a ton of latitude when they decide who to press which charges on and who they just let go with warnings or whatever, choosing to throw child endangerment at this girl is just straight up trolling
Like getting blood on a uniform and getting ‘assaulting an officer’ added
And the mayor had the audacity to say they don’t agree with what ICE did.
That’s great, but maybe get your police force to stop enabling their actions.
Even better, have your police force enforce the damn law. Arrest these men when they try to kidnap people without a warrant.
Yeah i think she was the one endangering the child not the fucking trump SS agents
Pure evil.
It’s a classic cop routine:
- Step 1: do some violence
- Step 2: realize it looks kinda bad, look around and arrest somebody else for what they just did
- Step 3: profit (time and a half for their trouble)
1: always be on lookout for slightest challenge to authority
2: arrest whoever possible
Obviously we’ve seen videos where the opposite is true too, not an absolutist, but ya def the MO for many
“We don’t have to show you anything,” one agent reportedly shot back when asked for ID or a warrant.
Actually, yea. You do. Or its just assault and kidnapping. Official paperwork is not privileged or secret. That idiot should be fired along with his chain of command.
Helpful neighbor: “No, I’m with ICE and I’m arresting you motherfuckers.”
*We all get to pretend to be ICE or whatever the fuck if there’s no requirement to prove who you are
I’m surprised armed plainclothes and or tactically dressed leftist groups, who’s goal is to specifically protect accused immigrants, haven’t popped up.
Actually, yea. You do
For now.
No. They do no matter what. Once they tread on the Fourth the grumblings about resistance, rebellion, or revolt become a legal defense of our Constitutional rights. These people immediately get “promoted” and become a demest8c threat to the Constitution. It would then become open hunting season on ICE, with defending the Constitution becoming the legal defense. The only reason it hasn’t happened yet is because ICE is targeting weak willed areas. They are moving fast and they also happen to be getting a large percentage of illegals with only occasional “mistakes”.
We don’t know if they’re actually getting any “illegals”
There’s a court case right now. He’s suing the ability of federal judges to make essentially precedence matter.
If he wins this case in the Supreme Court, All executive orders are law until they are challenged in court, and if one person wins a judgment, It will have zero effect on other like cases.
So the playbook is he writes an executive order that ice doesn’t need to show warrants, ice doesn’t show warrant, each individual that is f***** over by this executive order has to take it to court individually, assuming they’re not already in a South American prison.
We’re a couple of judgments away from absolute dictatorship.
It’s also reported that Trump’s people are working on suspending habeas corpus. This would remove your right to challenge your arbitrary imprisonment in court. So they will be able to disappear anyone, forever, with no reason and no legal recourse. Effectively Trump will then be an absolute dictator.
Habeas corpus (/ˈheɪbiəs ˈkɔːrpəs/ ⓘ; from Medieval Latin, lit. ‘you should have the body’) is a legal procedure by which a report can be made to a court alleging the unlawful detention or imprisonment of an individual, and requesting that the court order the individual’s custodian (usually a prison official) to bring the prisoner to court, to determine whether their detention is lawful. Relief, when available, is generally governed by equitable principles.
One of the few criticisms of Lincoln is that he suspended Habeas Corpus during the Civil War. I expect that the MAGA Nazis will be invoking Lincoln’s name in this regard. They love to claim that they are the “Party of Lincoln,” and therefore he would support their treason.
They can make whatever laws they want. This is a constitutional matter. It can only be changed by a 2/3s majority vote of the house and senate.
ICE can say they don’t need a warrant. Fuck them up if they don’t have one … a warrant is required.
The president can say ICE doesnt need a warrant … fuck him, he doesn’t have the authority … they do.
The Supreme Court can say ICE doesnt need a warrant … fuck them, they do not have the authority … a warrant is still needed.
Source: The Constitution
If nothing physically stops them from doing what they say they can do, then they can do it, and the constitution is meaningless. This is what is happening, they are proving the constitution is meaningless.
Eventually ICE will stumble upon someone with a strong interest in the Second Amendment and get themselves physically stopped. Because ICE’s actions are unconstitutional they will be considered illegal, thus whatever is done to stop them will be legal.
It is only a matter of time and this story will be in the news. MAGA thinks they can tread upon the Constitution, but the Constitution lays coiled and has sharp fangs.
I applaud your optimism. But anyone resisting ICE with armed force will be killed by a SWAT team and immediately branded a terrorist by all the media.
The Constitution only has meaning because you all say it has meaning. All of its enforcement comes down to the Executive branch. Congress doesn’t have enforcers, the Judiciary doesn’t have enforcers. Systematically, all of the people in the Executive branch that would stop this are being forced out. The people in power have decided the Constitution has no meaning, and it’s too late to stop them. Killing some ICE agents is what they want so they have the justification to declare martial law and subjugate the entire country by force.
The Constitution is essentially enforced by the Honor System, which is easily ignored by people who not only have no honor, but consider it a weakness that should be ruthlessly exploited. A petson with ethics and integrity can be easily bested by someone who ddoesn’t respect those qualities.
Am I allowed to shoot in self defense if this happens in a stand your ground state?
Yes. Will the court decide in your favor? Who knows, but I’d wager probably not. It’s better to try it and find out then let this happen though, or probably a better idea would be to get out ASAP and try to become a ghost if possible. Eventually this won’t be tolerated, but people need to see others stand up before they will usually.
Legally, absolutely, but they’ll kill you for it anyways
Actually no. https://newrepublic.com/post/194442/trump-doj-memo-ice-arrest-search-warrant
Civil liberties have already been suspended
Just because Marmalade Mussolini or his DOJ wrote a memo doesn’t make it legal. The use of the Alien Enemies Act is already highly contested in federal court. (It remains to be seen if/when courts will enforce their rulings, but just today a Tufts University student was released from ICE custody as a result of a judge’s ruling.)
Fired? This guy will be promoted. Shake your head. Fight back.
I’m curious. Do they have toshow it to bystanders? To the person they are arresting sure. And I would think to family of that person… but maybe not. I doubt they have to show it to randos on the street. But, I think it is safe to assume they didn’t have it. Even if they did, thier history means they have blown any credibility on that front. As for ID. I do wonder about that. Anyone know the actual laws?
If they are expecting you to follow some sort of directive they do.
Certainly not. A cop can direct you to get out of a car without a warrant, and you are required to comply. And plenty of even simpler situations.
not if they don’t identify themselves. If they don’t they are not a cop. If some dude says pull over from a rolled up window you totally do not have to and if you are pulled over you can ask their badge number and name and to see it. This chain is not about warrants but about them identitifying themselves.
The comment that started this thread said ID or warrant. A badge is far from either. And apparently from other sources, in most states they don’t have to give you thier badge number or name. Seems a few states have a law saying they do, but only a few.
an ID is totally their badge. The warrant part was not saying something similar to an ID/badge as much as saying an acceptable alternative.
You can get a badge at the dollar store. Id, not so much. The ID has thier picture on it so that you know it is thiers. The badge… not so much. Most of us have decent idea what out state ID looks like. Maybe not enough to spot a decent forgery, but far better than a police badge which can be different. You have town, city, county, and state leos. And the all the feds. They simply are not the same thing at all.
Big, strong, well trained men in tactical gear pushing, threatening and arresting women and children … and they wouldn’t go into any actual threatening situations to deal with actual violent crimes.
Bunch of cowards going after the weakest in society … classic yellow bellied fascism.
Looks like Germany during the 1940s, when people were also dragged from their homes. Good luck y’all
Reporting in from Poland (Canada). We are so fucked I don’t think enough people realize it yet.
Yep, fascism has to have an in-group and an out-group. As they work through the groups of immigrants, trans people, Democrats, etc they need to find new ones to persecute. They’ll work through their own undesirables and then they’re coming for us.
It’s just like Nazi Germany in the 30s. It didn’t take long for Hitler to turn his eyes on Poland.
He will come for us. His talks of the 51st state are not a joke or a bluff. People are not taking it seriously enough.
I hope Canada nukes D.C. to protect themselves.
We don’t have any nukes.
Want some?
well trained
They are well trained in thuggery and how to evade legal consequences. 80% of cops wouldn’t know discipline or acting through adversity if it knocked their teeth out, and the 20% that do learned it in the military.
They def meant they are well trained in violence
So when you all gonna use all those guns you buy to defend yourself
The people opposed to ICE aren’t the ones that buy the guns.
I don’t think that’s correct. Plenty of us on the left have firearms, we just don’t make it our entire personality.
I’d very much like to see a similar study done more currently, but I can’t turn one up from my halfhearted looking around.
That only measures people that record it. You don’t need any paperwork, other than a written receipt that you keep, submitted to the government in a lot of states if you buy from a person and not a store.
It’s a survey, by definition it only counts people that record the information in question. That’s the fundemental premise to the entire field of statistics.
(fwiw, nobody is allowed to do any science on even the submitted records, because this country is broken. Hence why finding current info is difficult)
That has been changing. We’re not buying them as fast but we’re buying them.
Do you have a source for that? I’ve been digging around some looking for information but other than the national exit polls (which removed the question more than a decade ago I guess?) I can’t find any credible studies on it. It would be reassuring (well, kind of…) were you right, but anecdotal evidence and all that
I don’t have a source, just personal experience. We’ve started a shooting club for fun. When we started it in 2019 it was 5 of us like minded folks. We now have many members, club purchased land with ranges, and 3 of the members opened their own gun store.
I mean, that sounds awesome! Wish there was something like it in my area. It’s an inherent sampling bias to reference a liberal gun club for gun ownership rates among liberals, but that’s really cool you guys are getting so much community engagement!
That’s a shame
You are wholefully incorrect. There is a lot of people on both sides that own guns. America has more guns then it has people. Sooooo no.
America also has more cows than it has people, and lego is the largest tire manufacturer in the world. While true that some liberals also own guns, for example I am a liberal and I own a gun, I’m not sure how it’s relevant beyond that (admittedly) situationally self-evident truth. Gun culture is centered around, and the vast majority of firearms are owned by, conservatives.
Ok dude some bright examples there you got.
💩🤡
Ayyyy welcome to Lemmy!
In case that dude/person’s opinions suck we’re generally a lil nicer than reddit which is great for all of us
To be fair, it did bring me laughter on an otherwise very depressing day. So I’m grateful to them for that at least.
Wait, did those examples seem irrelevant to you?
What a cop out. Every citizen has the same access. For years you have had very good reason to arm and train yourselves. Your country is where it is because you all refuse to fight for it. Rather blame everything you can.
Every citizen has the same access
sad California noises
While California does have a lot more regulation around guns, I don’t think it’s necessary prohibitive. As much as the right claims it is.
We’ve got a written test, takes all of 20 minutes, not difficult if you have common sense and all the questions are online.
Then you have to demonstrate to the salesman that you can safely operate the firearm (load and unload). I’d hope someone purchasing a firearm would be capable of this.
Finally there’s the 10 day cooldown period. So you can’t walk out same day with the gun. I do think this one is kinda annoying. It totally makes sense for your first gun, but why do I have to wait every time?
The rest just comes down to model and configuration availability. Restricted to the handgun roster, but there’s still a decent amount available. Restricted to 10 round magazines, I don’t like this one either. And generally restricted to featureless shotguns and rifles.
But if you wanted to, you could go today and start the purchase of a featureless AR15-style rifle with a detachable 10 round magazine. And you’d pick it up 10 days from now. So I don’t think it’s extremely prohibitive.
That’s the state level laws, but many local jurisdictions are much more restrictive.
I’m not aware of any significant local laws in CA. Other than the SF law outlawing sales.
Which one are you referring to?
The SF law (that’s where I live), various “may issue” concealed carry permit policies, extra taxes, local ordinances banning renters from having firearms in the home or in their car, it’s just a litany of small encroachments that add up to great difficulty.
Mmmhm.
“We don’t have to show you anything,” one agent reportedly shot back when asked for ID or a warrant.
“The crowd was unruly,” police said in a statement, claiming several individuals “put their hands on federal agents and Worcester officers.”
There’s no reason to believe that they’re federal agents if they refuse to show ID. And there’s no law against putting your hands on gang members kidnapping one of your neighbors while impersonating federal agents. These dipshits are out of control and fucking stupid.
I’m just pleading for them to do this to the wrong set of people who take 2A seriously.
Extremely surprising that it didn’t happen yet.
Liberals in America should be arming themselves and stockpiling ammo.
Without civil asset forfeiture and wasteful budgets, would be hard to militarize as much as many US departments
They’ve been playing Military Police for years now. Good news of course is the dozens of joints they’ve taken off our streets!
But that’s interesting in of itself. They’re not going after gang members or violent offenders, they’re going for non violent/dangerous people.
I was in several protests that were violently suppressed by police in the US, using tear gas, flash bangs, beatings etc. After threats and fascist violence, groups of armed leftists joined in more frequently. For whatever reason I can’t recall the police attacking while they were there. Like the IDF killing children, they only want defenseless victims.
Removed by mod
There’s no reason to believe that they’re federal agents if they refuse to show ID.
This is what I don’t understand. What’s then to prevent literally anyone else claiming to be from some other agency to intervene and say they can’t take the person away? And then claim they don’t need to show ID?
people should start impersonating as ICE and start arresting ICE agents.
This isn’t even a joke. And I think this might actually happen at some point.
They won’t listen to reason. Only a good beatdown will convince them.
If you are ICE, fuck you. You should be ashamed. Your parents should be ashamed
If you are someone who stands by while these cosplayers are kidnapping and torturing people, then you deserve your place in hell
And to the police that showed up to arrest their neighbors and enable ICE I hope hell is real because you deserve worse
thats why they are wearing masks, so they dont get doxxed.
So kidnapping and the police are in on it?
In some cities they are working with ICE, yes.
You can search for which cities formally have an agreement with ICE here:https://themarkup.org/tools/2025/04/16/law-enforcement-ice-cooperation-tracker
look at those wussies hiding thier faces, dont want to get doxxed.
Can’t wait till people start shooting ICE and the police on sight because they were pushed too far.
I’m genuinely surprised it hasn’t happened yet. They’re probably staying out of the most sketchy neighborhoods.
They’re also usually relying on secrecy and speed. The way they quietly stopped and surrounded that innocent grad student, masked up, and kidnapped her so smoothly was terrifying.
This is exactly it. They’re specifically targeting people they know can’t or won’t fight back, like literal kids with cancer.
The best way is if everyone arms themselves. Then if the incident happens, several people shoot and immediately run. Plan your escape before shooting.
It really seems like they’re hitting blue states hardest and where gun ownership is less common.
It’s almost like the “left” in the US shouldn’t have leaned on anti-2nd amendment rhetoric for 30 years.
2nd amendment doesn’t mean everyone should be allowed to own an automatic rifle. There is nuance here, please think.
I am not playing games when I say that I wish more American leftists owned automatic rifles.
You do realise that automatic rifle ownership by civilians is incredibly illegal in the US, right? And has been for almost 100 years… An AR-15 is not an automatic rifle.
Right. So gun laws in the states are either too restrictive or poorly written.
I know you said rhetoric, not actual 2A, but I will continue to say this every time I see it, this is not what 2A is for. It’s clearly for militias defending the state against an enemy army. It’s been mutilated into self defence stuff, but there’s nothing even approaching that there.
However, 9A does protect this right, since it has long been held by the people. Regardless, the reasoning doesn’t matter. People should be armed and train in operation and safe handling/storage/maintenance of their weapon, just in case it’s needed.
I can’t possibly express how little I care about anything you wrote.
Get guns, kill Nazis. It’s not complex.
Wow, I didn’t even write much and you lost the thread that quickly. I was agreeing with the premise.
I mean, they are supporting nazis, so they are nazis themselves. And the only good nazi is a dead nazi so…
Can’t wait till martial law? Fascist in Chief salivates like he did over Ivanka in that TV interview
How does America have so many cowards willing to do this job?
I’ve known plenty of them. They sign up specifically because they want to do this job. Rember the dumb bullies from school? Imagine what happens when they grow up.
Are you kidding me? Think of every maga you’ve seen with aggressive, hateful, pro-Trump anti-biden anti-immigration signs and such in their yards and on the back of their cars.
Every one of them with any kind of prior training and probably thousands upon thousands more without would punch their mother in the face for the chance to be given a badge and paycheck to get rid of brown people.
They are probably turning down 10x more people than they could even consider hiring.
The US is full of bigots and white supremacists, and it’s more visible now than at any time in my nearly six decades of life.
I don’t engage with them being outside the US but we do have a ‘Maple MAGA’ here which is similar.
Terrifying to hear that there are many in the US that are eager to do this type of work.
Yeah I’ve been a little surprised to hear that there are similar types up there, I don’t know why - I suppose it’s human nature.
What I’ve seen in recent years here has shaken and changed me.
Unfortunately, many Western countries are inching towards fascism due to failed neoloberal policies and rising antiimmigrant sentiment.
Canada and Australia were able to at least delay it in their most recent elections.
As an Australian, did you want to maybe speak for yourself there mate? We haven’t experienced any major regressions of progressive policies or rights, and just saw our right wing of government shrink to a record low when they tried to import Trump’s culture war schtick. Historically our right wing has actually been fairly moderate. It was a right-wing government that instituted aggressive gun control laws in the 1990s, and a right-wing government that (for better or worse) was in power when same-sex marriage was legalised in the 2010s.
If anything, Australia is literally the poster child for “How Not to Inch Towards Fascism” that other countries should aspire too.
Exclusionary and traditionalist politics are gaining steam in Australia as they are in the rest of the Western world. This election was no doubt a good outcome but, just like in Canada and the US, support for conservatism and far right politics is growing among young Australian men. This will become problematic in the next 10 to 15 years as historically this demographic inherits control of the institutions.
What concerns me the most is what happens when you heap climate refugees on top of this mess. The forecast doesn’t look so great.
They are too stupid and horrible to hold a real job so as long as they get paid they dont care…
And also so many cowards unwilling to do the OTHER job.
They’re a bunch of psychopaths.
Edit:spelling
These ice agents deserve to be targeted. Yes, I am advocating violence against agents like this.
I fully agree. With the lack of respect for the law I don’t understand why there aren’t uprisings and riots in the streets by now!
Americans are being scarily apathetic to full takeover of fascism happening there. The constitution is already nullified if judges, mayor’s and those decrying fascism and authoritarianism are being locked away… the night is dark. They should be going by now but alas.
They’re not federal agents. At best they’ve been deputized. Even that’s probably overstating their legal status.
thats why they are wearing mask, so its harder to retaliate against them, people should consider pulling thier masks off.
Maybe installing a government run by neo-Nazis was a bad idea?
Why aren’t Americans shooting at ICE agents. It’s that what the 2nd amendment was for?
Right, but if you start shooting, then you’re 100% dead, and for what? A 10pm news blip? Defend yourself, but dont commit suicide for nothing. Organize and resist.
You’re going to “organize and resist” while the USA quietly slips into an authoritative regime.
Then it will be too late.
Dying for nothing doesn’t help the cause either. What do you suggest? Start killing ICE agents on site? How long do you really think you would last?
Dying for nothing doesn’t help the cause either.
Is it for nothing?
The USA is a failing country right now. It won’t be coming back from this without intervention.
Protests will not fix the problem because the people in charge don’t care about the laws. They’re on course to start rounding up people they don’t like and shipping them off to black sites. They’re already talking about arresting democrats.
The USA is currently fucked and unless you can ramp up your actions against the current regime, it’s lost.
Where are all those brave Americans chastising the cowardly Russians for not standing up to Putin’s bullshit? What happened? I thought you were all armed to the teeth, and brave as fuck? But now somehow everyone suddenly has become so damn sensible in assessing the threats to themselves personally. I wonder what changed. No longer gong ho about revolution when it comes with personal costs, are we? Who would’ve thought…
But someone did try to take out Trump, unlike cowardly Russians who can’t even stand.
this may be difficult to believe but many americans are not interested in killing people
Sending Americans off to south American death camps is cool though, right?
If this article is any indication clearly some people are against that as well
You’re right. That’s extremely hard to believe.
Looks like nazi germany
Just another day in this version of America. Wonder how those protest non-votes feel now.
Probably still something something genocide supporters
I see it. Avoid genocide by becoming literal nazis? Nazis probably didn’t call it genocide either.
MAGA is the movement, GOP is the party and ICE is the goon squad. Deportation apparatus is operational. Media cooptation, military buildup and foreign bullying is incomplete, but underway. All in all, their evil campaign still lacks scale and foresight, but they’re getting there. Opposition so far is not much more than the eye movement of the deer in the headlights.
With enough time, people around the world won’t be comparing things to Nazi Germany anymore, but instead to Trumpian America
Soooo those 2nd amendment rights are a joke? Guns were bought just to show off at the range and with buddies?
Trump and his cronies are gonna get your guns its not a matter of if but when.
Rise the fuck up.
Trump doesn’t need to come after guns. It’s pretty obvious at this point that nobody is using them or ever will. Americans may talk tough about guns but they aren’t a threat to the fascists.
Right, but he’s dismantling the constitution piece by piece its coming, not a matter of if but when
There has to be millions like me out there that are willing to fight I refuse to believe 200+ million Americans are gonna roll over.
I concur. Any portion of society that would have the will of resistance has been convinced that only fascists have guns therefore it’s the fascists that have all the guns.
Basically all the leftists I know support gun ownership, there are many chapters of Socialist Rifle Associations and John Brown Gun Clubs across the country. Democrats talk about gun control but pretty much every demographic in the US loves guns still. They just aren’t sufficiently organized yet to be effective against this stuff, and most people still have a lot to lose that it’s hard to make the first serious acts of resistance.
They should have attacked the
ICEgestapo agents.That’s next.
Those who abjure violence can do so only because others are committing violence on their behalf.
Melt the ICE.
