• Sam_Bass@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    speaker of the house is a devoutly religious buffoon. and he absolutely loves the angry orange. keep that in your thoughts over the next week.

  • DoubleChad@lemm.ee
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    No one who listens to a wide range of news sources and gets a balanced perspective talks like this. If you agree with this you need to branch out and challenge yourself with different world views, even if it is difficult for you.

    • jj4211@lemmy.world
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      The thing is with the wide range of news sources, the two sides of ‘Does Trump and his close associates want to undermine democracy or not’ tends to boil down to:

      • Yes, and here’s a long list of concrete quotes and activities directly from Trump and his associates that explicitly declare their intent, including recordings.

      • Nuh-uh, the liberals!

      Trump specifically wants an autocracy and has attracted like-minded folks who would want to advance that concept to their own purposes after Trump dies. The potentially more sane parts of the republican party have decided to ostracize those willing to stand up and object to Trump, notably including Romney and Cheney. Now that he’s stepping down, even Mitch McConnell seems to be corroborating accounts that, privately, he thought Trump needed to go.

      He’s not a nuanced man and he has always been a megalomaniac that has always undermined everything around him if it meant he got a little ahead personally. I don’t understand how anyone can continue to give him the benefit of the doubt.

  • BMTea@lemmy.world
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    There is actually little daylight between Biden and Trump on an international level. The real difference is between the parties. If you’re American I can 100% understand why you’d never want the GOP anywhere near education, healthcare, climate policy etc. Their religious zealotry, genocidal inclinations towards Muslims (which is present but far more muted among Dems), racial antipathy and paranoia of black people and anti-intellectualism are a recipe for national decline and unrestrained global abuse of non-white, non-Christian peoples.

    The Democrats have a neoconservative problem which also threatens the entire world. But sadly the responsible and sensible side of America is stuck with them.

    • draneceusrex@lemmy.world
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      Does the Dems have an issue with Neocons? I can agree with that.

      But I prefer the side that at least supports NATO and our allies. I prefer the side that at least doesn’t lavish praise to dictators on a regular basis.

      Say what you want about Neocons, it is telling when we have Dick Cheney and John Bolton saying that Trump is dangerous. I will hold my nose and thank them for helping to get Harris elected to preserve the democracy we have.

      Sorry, no, there is a huge difference between MAGA Republicans and the Dems (and Neocons) on foreign policy.

    • Tyrangle@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      Isn’t Trump like super isolationist? Ask a Ukrainian who they prefer to win and I think they’ll have a pretty consistent answer.

      • BMTea@lemmy.world
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        To claim Trump is “isolationist” in 2016 is one. To claim it in 2024 is simply denying the facts. Trump was and remains not that much different to Biden on international policy. The key difference is diplomacy. Trump fails at diplomacy while keeping within many of the same policies.

        There is a reason that Biden foreign policy has doubled down or refused to undo Trump era policies that Democrats considered to be mistakes, like leaving the JCPOA, playing around with Taiwan ambiguities, enabling Israeli liquidation of a nascent Palestinian state, etc.

        • Tyrangle@lemmy.world
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          I get the impression that Harris plans to drag out the war in Ukraine with continued US support while Trump plans to end it quickly by withholding support. That’s a consequential difference as far as I’m concerned. If Trump were in charge now I expect we’d already be at war with Iran. Remember when he had Soleimani killed in 2020? I don’t think he’d be nearly as reluctant about supporting Israel if he were in charge. I agree that Taiwan is a powder keg, but I’m not sure what we should be doing differently there - curious what you’re getting at there.

          • BMTea@lemmy.world
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            I do remember 2020 and 2021, and I was in fact in the Gulf at the time and talked to people with knowledge of back-channel negotiations between the US and Iran. The only difference between the Suleimani situation and today is that the Biden admin supports Israel’s assassinations rather than carrying them out directly. But no one is fooled here - we know they are equal part American assassinations. This “assassination as coercive diplomacy” shit didn’t work for Trump, who was pushed by the belligerent, compromised, Israel/Saudi bought GOP fanatics to ditch the JCPOA and go for violence.

            Do you know what the goal of those back channel negotiations was, by the way? The US was demanding that Iran reduce it’s self-imposed 2000 kilometer missile distance limit to be far shorter so that it couldn’t strike Israel.

            Well here we are in 2024, with a Biden administration that has gotten use to a point where Iran and Israel are striking each other’s military bases directly. Everyone you talk to in Kuwait City, Istanbul, Manama, Doha and so on will tell you that Iran would be absolutely insane not to prioritize nuclear armament, and some suspect that they may already have some nukes stowed deep.

            The Gaza genocide and its regional implications have been a bigger policy failure than anything Trump did.

  • gcheliotis@lemmy.world
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    You know I really can’t tell, and as a non-American outsider see that both sides are being extremely alarmist at this moment. Although the main criticism of Harris is that she is more of the same, there are plenty who try to paint her as a radical and dangerous left-winger, when she is nothing of the sort of course. Makes one wonder where the real Donald Trump ends and the caricature begins on the other end of the spectrum.

    This is simply what we call polarization in politics, and is very hurtful to any semblance of unity that nationhood requires. America will likely not heal from this for a while, no matter who wins. Unless, whoever wins, delivers on something that matters to everyone, regardless of politics, that is usually something having to do with the cost and quality of life. That tends to placate people, even while their freedoms are being curtailed.

    But I do feel that Trump is more symptom than cause. And the article suggests as much as well:

    “…rising political antagonism in America is a perennial outgrowth of its defining conflict over race and national identity — with the current round of conflict sparked largely (albeit not entirely) by backlash to Barack Obama’s 2008 victory.”

    • acchariya@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      There is nothing alarmist about raising the alarm when one candidate wants to bring back the spoils system to give regulatory power to the world’s richest man, and leadership of some of the most important health organizations in the world to an anti-science, disturbed individual who mutilates roadkill. It is objectively alarming when a candidate for leadership of the most powerful military complex in history cozies up to dictators and admits that he would like to be a dictator, just for one day. This candidate himself will be serving a final term and has displayed questionable mental health, and is facing significant criminal and civil liability and therefore has nothing to lose.

      Make no mistake, this election is between more of the same, with many of the negatives it implies, and an inflection point in world history the likes of which we have not seen since perhaps 1985.

  • conorm@feddit.uk
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    3 days ago

    extinction-level threat to the dregs honestly, it’s a shame there isn’t a politician with a right-wing social policy and a left-wing economic policy, because that is the gold the world needs

  • IninewCrow@lemmy.ca
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    3 days ago

    It’s not so alarming what will happen if Trump gets elected

    What’s more alarming for me is how dumb America could be that they are even considering electing someone like him … or to even have a choice between an average politician or a wannabe fascist and everyone is having a hard time deciding on what the sane option is.

    This is a general intelligence test for America … and so far they are failing.

    • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
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      This is a general intelligence test for America … and so far they are failing.

      It’s not.

      Most voters aren’t “stupid,” they just live in completely different information universes.

      This has always been the case in America, but I feel like it’s never been so severe, with people basically having their minds sucked into phones by design.

      • chiliedogg@lemmy.world
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        My parents have been brainwashed into not believing any news that shows Trump in a bad light. When I show them video of one of his rants, or his dancing, or him giving a microphone a happy ending, they think I’m gullible and am falling for doctored video.

        When people have been trained not to trust legitimate news sources, it’s really, really hard to convince them to come back to reality because, in their eyes, we’re the brainwashed ones.

        • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
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          Yep.

          I feel like information hygiene should be a mandatory part of school curriculum now. Like not just a small part, but hammered in.

          It’s too late for our parents I guess, unless either party feels like regulating big tech…

        • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
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          Though as an addendum, my mom grew up Republican, but doesn’t know how to use Facebook or anything, and she hates Donald Trump with a burning passion. Its kind of hilarious. She would literally, actually vote for Hitler over him, as his personality is so fundamentally incompatible with her, lol.

          I mention that, as it feels like a test case for someone that hasn’t been conditioned to view him as a superhero or whatever.

      • kreskin@lemmy.world
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        Disagree. Americans are too comfortable to do much of anything for themselves. The rise of centrism is basically being OK with whatever, and calling that clever.

    • cmoney@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      One party in particular has gone to great lengths to wreck the education system, looks like we are starting to see the results of those efforts.

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      The culture of America is rooted in bigoted populism. You know what the big political issue of the 1850s was? 1870’s? 1920’s? 1960’s?

      It’s the aftermath of the 60s that kept the creeps quiet for awhile, but we’re regressing to the mean now. This is the real America for better or worse. Always has been.

    • index@sh.itjust.works
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      2 days ago

      have a choice between an average politician or a wannabe fascist and everyone is having a hard time deciding on what the sane option is.

      The “average politician” is backing a genocide and israel fascist government, among other evil regimes around the world like saudi arabia or emirates.

      If you consider either a fascist or a genocide supporter a sane option you are doing something much worst than failing an intelligence test, you are evil and in bad faith.

    • JasonDJ@lemmy.zip
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      3 days ago

      To be fair, a lot of people believe that choosing neither somehow would absolve them of any guilt should fascism win.

      • IninewCrow@lemmy.ca
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        This is what I mean … the choice is either an average politician or an old wing nut orange man … but the choices are so difficult for Americans to decide that many choose neither and never think that they are instead paving the way for the wannabe fascist.

        I can’t believe that the fate of the world hinges on the deranged decisions of a completely confused people. As much as I don’t want to admit that America has so much influence, they do have literal control over much of the world and they do have the largest most powerful military at the moment. So whoever gets to be leader will set the stage for the stability or instability of the world in the next few years. And it’s all riding on ill informed choices of a very ill informed population.

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          It’s absurd how much power the executive has. The president shouldn’t matter that much. They are responsible for implementing laws that are written and passed by congress. That’s pretty much it. Maybe appoint a SCOTUS judge or two. And a bunch of lower court judges. Pending senate approval, of course.

          Instead they are now nearly unilaterally in charge of the strongest military and largest economy the world has ever seen. Or at least they will, if Project 2025 or Agenda 47 is to be followed.

      • HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        don’t forget the christian second coming accelerationist folk who just want to see it all burn because they’re embarrassed they’ve fucked up too many predictions.

      • index@sh.itjust.works
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        Directly supporting and advocating for fascists and genocide supporters is much worst than not choosing to participate in a staged election that for a century has granted power to the same two parties

        • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          Fucking moronic. See if you feel that way when your friends and loved ones are against the wall.

          You have a chance to do something (however small) to prevent that.

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            Fucking moronic. See if you feel that way when your friends and loved ones are against the wall.

            How do you think people with relatives in the middle east feel right now?

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    3 days ago

    Erdogan once said “democracy is a bus we ride until we reach our destination”. I feel major similar vibes from the GOP.

  • TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world
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    I don’t know exactly how bad a second Trump term would be, but I’d really rather not find out. At best it will be embarrassing and absurd, at worst it would be devastating and catastrophic for countless millions, both inside and outside the US.

  • StopObscurantism@lemmy.ca
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    2 days ago

    A second Trump term really is an extinction-level threat to democracy worldwide, not just in United States. Considering that Trump and his supporters promise an isolationist policy, all sorts of predatory authoritarian and totalitarian regimes will suddenly feel like they can do anything - and this will start happening all over the world.

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    If American democracy elects Trump, then your version of it has already failed.

    • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      The fact he’s a consideration for the presidency again means we’re already broken beyond repair, he’d just be the tombstone.

      We’ll have fascists shoot Americans in the street and fully protected by the law (and not just the cops who do it) before we ever have a candidate who can give us Universal Healthcare and a better minimum wage.

      A wake up call to fix the Democracy was in 2000, and we did nothing. We all ignored our complaints when 9/11 happened, and then did nothing when Trump won in 2016.

  • CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world
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    Chomsky was right when he properly pointed out that Republicans are the biggest threat to the world.

    Donnie is merely a symptom. No Republicans ever should be allowed to hold any office.

    • NostraDavid@programming.dev
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      I would argue that the Republicans are a symptom as well, the whole USA democratic structure will only enable a 2-party system. The whole systemic structure is rotten.

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    I think he’s a symptom of a much larger disease. The people behind him, the evangelicals, non college educated whites, the climate change deniers, the industrialists who fight every regulation, the behind closed doors racists. These are the democracy extinction harbingers.

    • Random Dent@lemmy.ml
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      21 hours ago

      I’ve been saying for a while, George W. Bush is the one who took the door off its hinges and sold it, Trump is just the inevitable crackhead who walked in and started living in the kitchen.

    • NastyNative@mander.xyz
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      Or it could be regular family people that are sick of seeing their taxes going to countries not even in NATO. Or the fact that the inflation during this administration has American choosing food or medicine. Or the fact that during this administration housing has become only a dream. Or the facts that the current administration opened the boarder to bring cheap labor to replace us. Yeah great current administration!

      • auzy@lemmy.world
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        Medicine? You mean like those handled by Obamacare which Trump wants to get rid of? From my understanding that was a huge change (here in Australia we have Medicare which is life changing and similar)

        Also, if you’re getting replaced by people from another country (who have a huge disadvantage), I’d argue maybe you need to work on improving yourself.

        That being said, she’s also increasing the minimum wage and taxing the rich more (whilst reducing tax for middle class and poor). So even minimum wage people are hugely better off.

        Trumps bs has caused issues internationally, even here in Australia. I don’t think you realise how much he is fucking things up for normal people worldwide

          • auzy@lemmy.world
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            If Trump wins, I’d be happy to have political refugees from the US personally

            And it actually affects us too. All Trump’s shitty racism, bigotry, anti vaccine agenda is being reinforced worldwide because he’s an idiot. And he’s showing our absolutely crap political parties what they can get away with (and they’re using him as an example).

            For our military, don’t forget, he’s giving away confidential military secrets too (I have a friend in the military, and he is putting her at risk).

            This is bigger than the US. It doesn’t affect me as much, but i also have friends in the US

            Also I’m fairly sure I could get a job in the US and residency if i wanted

        • NastyNative@mander.xyz
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          Trump was already president and it was the best 4 years for Americans. Everything started to suck when Biden became president and Trump warned us that this would happen. Prices for everything inflated homes are only for huge corps to purchase yeah great great administration. They were better under trump and thats a fact. I’m not looking to make history with a women president I’m looking to make money for my future self and family.

          • the_brownie@lemm.ee
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            This take is so incredibly bad I’m almost thinking that you’re a troll. “Everything was good under Trump 😊” -> “Everything was bad under Biden 😡” therefore Trump good, Biden bad is probably the most juvenile and pathetic logical fallacy that persists in our shared political thought. I’m not sure if you remember, but there was a little thing called COVID that happened which shocked supply lines, trade, took a huge toll on our collective mental health, and created an economic crisis. Acting like Biden caused that is so ridiculous, I have a hard time believing that even you believe that.

            You could argue that Biden handled the recovery poorly (and I don’t think that’s a bad argument), but then you’d have to compare it with how Trump would have handled such a recovery – something we really don’t know. Given his contempt for the working class it is doubtful it would be any better, and there was plenty of room for it to be actively worse.

            • NastyNative@mander.xyz
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              Im going by past experience and the Trump administration was better for the American people. Shit sucks right now and it will continue this way with the current administration.

          • Dainterhawk999@sh.itjust.works
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            Are you completely sure ? Why is Elmo endorsing Trump? Aint he a big corp fraternity member? Has he still paid the pledge members who signed it?

          • jj4211@lemmy.world
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            The ‘everything started to suck’ came with COVID, not with a presidential administration. To the extent that inflation and everything ultimately got away from us, that started mostly under Trump’s watch, but even then I don’t think I can blame Trump for the bad economy stuff, except maybe the degree to which he escalated trade war with China, but Biden has been happy to continue it. I don’t see Trump or the GOP willing to go against those huge corps for the sake of the common man, generally I see quite the opposite.

            • NastyNative@mander.xyz
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              We cant tell the future, Im going by the past and what I experienced during the Trump administration.

      • Bytemeister@lemmy.world
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        Or it could be regular family people that are sick of seeing their taxes going to countries not even in NATO.

        I thought republicans didn’t even like NATO, what’s the butthurt about this?

        Or the fact that the inflation during this administration has American choosing food or medicine.

        We had to choose that long before this administration. The primary source of inflation is corporate greed and the top 0.1% demanding more from the rest of us, while paying less themselves, a position they only get away with because of conservatives.

        Or the fact that during this administration housing has become only a dream.

        Because there are no penalties or dis-incentives for corporations not to buy up all the land and houses. Every time we try to impose such rules, it gets shot down by republicans.

        Or the facts that the current administration opened the boarder to bring cheap labor to replace us.

        Border. Also, the implied violence and expulsion against undocumented workers is what enables employers to pay them such a cheap wage and enforce abysmal working conditions on them. The correct solution is to provide an easy path for work visas, and heavily penalize companies for hiring undocumented workers. You’ll never guess who is against doing that though…

        Your comment is peak “stick in bicycle” meme.

        • NastyNative@mander.xyz
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          Im not a republican!

          Food prices inflated during the current administration, food was super affordable. What did Biden do to try and control inflation? Nothing could care less.

          Again housing was affordable during the trump administration its not affordable anymore and if the dems win housing will just continue to be un affordable. Its been 4 years and they have done nothing!

          They opened the boarder to replace you open your eyes man. No body does anything out of the kindness of their hearts.

          You voting for this current mess is the bicycle meme lol

          • Bytemeister@lemmy.world
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            23 hours ago

            Im not a republican!

            Press ‘X’ to doubt.

            Food prices inflated during the current administration, food was super affordable. What did Biden do to try and control inflation? Nothing could care less.

            Which grocery company does Biden run where he can decide to reduce the prices?

            Again housing was affordable during the trump administration its not affordable anymore and if the dems win housing will just continue to be un affordable. Its been 4 years and they have done nothing!

            As someone who had to look for housing 3 times during Trump’s administration: no, it wasn’t affordable.

            They opened the boarder to replace you open your eyes man.

            Who is “They”?

            No body does anything out of the kindness of their hearts.

            No shit. Is that why you are voting for the orange fascist?

            • NastyNative@mander.xyz
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              23 hours ago

              Then dont assume right and whats the point of assuming? I correct you and you still doubt it lol ok I see why you want to vote for “Them”.

              Which grocery store does trump own cause he had way better prices.

              But you found a home now its unaffordable 80% increase in the last 4 years. Thanks Biden you the best!

              They are them!

              Im voting for my interest not against it!

              • Bytemeister@lemmy.world
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                23 hours ago

                Who is “They” again?

                Grocery prices were “good” during the end of the trump admin because grocery purchases were waaaay down during the global pandemic. Are you saying you’d prefer a global pandemic to paying hiked up prices for eggs?

                I actually bought my first home this year, whaddya know.

      • Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
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        sick of seeing their taxes going to countries not even in NATO.

        This misconception needs to be corrected.

        The tax dollars go to America’s milliary industrial complex. It’s their surplus (which is already budgeted and paid for by the American government) that is sent overseas. No tax dollars leave the USA.

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          Forgot money grows on trees! Its still spending our tax dollars thats what I said. I got a crazy idea how about putting that into education or infrastructure. The american people are getting taken advantage any way you try and paint it. Israel has free healthcare and education and they are not part of NATO. They can fund their own genocide!

          • Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
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            I don’t disagree, but the Military Industrial Complex is enabled and funded by both the Republicans and the Democrats. Nothing will stop your tax dollars flowing to it.

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    2 days ago

    it’s an extinction level event for a lot of things. we’re already out of time on so many important issues. every living creature on this earth should consider him a threat. we are in self defense mode, or at least we should be. sadly, most of you don’t seem to understand how dire the situation really is.

    but whatever. stick your head back in the sand i guess.

      • Quadhammer@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        Well start by voting. Vote local, vote often and make your voice heard. Then maybe try to reduce your carbon footprint. You really need a cultural shift for this to be effective. Yes yes I know businesses are the major polluters so I revert back to sentence one, vote, and continue to try to shift the culture to a more renewable one

        • Anti-Face Weapon@lemmy.world
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          2 days ago

          Ok, I vote in every single election, including every primary. I drive seldom, use public transportation often, eat meat only twice a week, and encourage other people to adopt socially and environmentally forward beliefs.

          Do you really think this is enough? I don’t, but there is only so much one person can do.

      • JesseoftheNorth@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        Are you ready to take the fight to the streets? Because that’s likely what it’ll come down to. Voting won’t save you. The constitution is only a flimsy piece of paper. Start organizing now.